A separate reality

Whoa, what just happened? I felt a disturbance in the universe, an unraveling of the very logic that keeps the celestial spheres spinning. Suddenly, nothing makes sense! What could it…

Oh, yeah. I mentioned the Confederate flag on the State House grounds, and I did so in terms that were almost dismissive rather than worshipful. In the universe in which the Flag is a Big Deal, certain concepts such as proportional response do not exist. It’s sort of like drawing cartoons of Mohammad — expect something that has little to do with what you said or did.

I was reminded of that by this comment on a recent post:

Mr Warthen,

Would you please provide a picture of yourself for my blog. I am in
the habit of crediting those who trash the Confederate Flag for my
readers, and I’d love to make you my newest entry!
http://aint-no-4-letter-word.blogspot.com/
Thanks & God Bless

Posted by: Billy Bearden | Sep 22, 2006 8:43:19 AM

OK, fine, credit away — but what does this have to do with me? Wait — are you suggesting that what I said somehow "trashed" the flag? I suppose if I said the sun went down last night, I’d be disrespecting old Sol, and could expect protests from outraged sun-worshipers.

Bradbeard
Talk about missing the point. But I should know to expect this. After having written about the flag hundreds of times (just not so much lately), I should actually feel the shape of space-time shifting around me as I re-enter the atmo of that loony world.

But hey — a reader request is a reader request. Rather than making poor Billy use that "mean" face above, as suggested by bill, I’ll provide something more directly tailored to the purpose. It’s just as mean, but has more of a period look. In fact, in this picture I was deliberately trying to affect a "Civil War general" scowl. You know how, back in the 19th century, getting your picture taken was such a big deal, and you had to be so still, that people always looked like they were constipated or something? That’s what I was going for.

Anyway, I thought anybody that much into Confederate memorabilia would prefer this gag picture to the other gag picture.

I would have made it sepiatone, but I had some trouble with PhotoShop.

 

Don’t thank me. I’m all about service.

190 thoughts on “A separate reality

  1. Brad Warthen

    I just went to Billy’s blog and scrolled through it, and it occurs to me that if three of y’all go there and each leave a comment, that would bring his total comments in the past month up to … let’s see, ummm … three!
    So don’t.

    Reply
  2. LexWolf

    Then of course we could also go to some other blogs and the comments they get on just one thread would equal an entire month’s worth on this blog.
    Clearly quantity doesn’t equal quality.
    I’m not a fan of the confederate flag and I haven’t even looked at that guy’s blog but something needed to be said about that snarky comment of yours. Maybe if that guy had the luxury of a link directly from the state’s largest newspaper and a big publicity push at its startup, his comments would be more numerous as well. In other words, your blog is what it is — very minor in the grand scheme of blogs — but probably wouldn’t even be that without big daddy The State.

    Reply
  3. bill

    I love the Elie Wiesel quote under”Confederate Ain’t No 4 Letter Word.”Talk about a separate reality.It is kinda sad he ain’t gettin’ many hits,but like Carlos said:
    “Once a man learns how to “see” he finds himself alone in the world with nothing but folly.”

    Reply
  4. Lee

    The NAACP conjured up the Confederate Flag Issue as a smokescreen from the scandal, where there leadership, right here in Columbia, looted the treasury and received prison terms.
    Donations plummeted, and they needed something to divert attention from the corruption, and refill the coffers.
    Hmmmm. How about teaming up with white liberal newspaper folk who need to suck up to their big cousins at the Philadelphia Enquirer and Washington Post, and divert all political attention from real issues into a phony one that is just what the Yankee media will lap up and run with?

    Reply
  5. Randy Ewart

    In other words, your blog is what it is — very minor in the grand scheme of blogs – Lex
    I think someone’s still pouting about having a whole threaddedicated to his childishness.
    Lee, nice parrotting. Was this from Rush’s Friday show?

    Reply
  6. Lee

    Randy, are you now fabricating a story about Rush Limbaugh addressing the phony Confederate flag issue? Why do you have such a difficult time with joining adult discussions? Are you totally unfamiliar with the NAACP embezzlement scandal which precipitated the flag smokescreen?

    Reply
  7. Capital A

    I just went to Billy’s blog and scrolled through it, and it occurs to me that if three of y’all go there and each leave a comment, that would bring his total comments in the past month up to … let’s see, ummm … three!
    Posted by: Brad Warthen | Sep 25, 2006 3:35:49 PM
    Which answers the age-old question: What do Mike Cakora’s and Billy Bearden’s blog have in common?
    Thanks, folks, I’ll be here all night. Drinks are in the back.

    Reply
  8. Randy Ewart

    Lee, I thought the NAACP was busy pushing to “legalize child molestation” because they are “liberals”. They sure are busy out there.
    BTW, I don’t think I need to fabricate stories to make Rush look bad.

    Reply
  9. Brad Warthen

    Dang. I threw "atmo" in there hoping to generate a "Firefly" thread. Maybe I should have been more obvious. Maybe I should have said "’verse" in the first line.

    After all, the analogies are there so that such a thread would be relevant to the ostensible subject. "Firefly" is set in a future post-"Civil War" galaxy, with Captain Mal and crew playing the part of former Rebs wandering the frontier on the edges of the law. This show should have been a huge hit down in our part of the country, with its theme of free-spirited former "Browncoats" constantly outwitting the priggish, snooty "Federals." And the formula gave folks with a conscience permission to enjoy it, by establishing that Mal hates slavery and all those who deal in it. (I refer to his picking a barroom brawl with interplanetary slavers at the start of one of the episodes — or was it in the movie? I forget.)

    And yet, it lasted less than a season. I own the DVD set, and I have episodes — good ones — that never aired. Such a shame.

    Reply
  10. c

    Talk about a separate reality:
    IDon’tBelieveTheState actually said something (sorta) nice about a State columnist.
    Judge for yourself here.

    Reply
  11. Capital A

    The South was right about everything except slavery. Unfortunately, that’s the worst sin to be in the wrong concerning. It’s the worm that rots the apple to its core.
    Yes, I know conditions in the north weren’t much better. I know the war wasn’t mainly about slavery. The north has played its propaganda expertly in the time since, though. We lost on all fronts and completely. Current Confederate flag worshipers certainly don’t help matters.
    Digressing, if you want good Firefly/Serenity t-shirts (to show your support), check out jinx.com . I may not be able to proudly wear Confed gray, but I’ll always be a Browncoat, and I aim to misbehave!
    If you’re a Joss Whedon fan, jump on his Astonishing X-Men run now. It’s more emotionally complex and riveting stuff than Firefly. Certainly better than the last “blockbuster” of a movie…
    He’s also going to become the regular writer on his self-admitted favorite comic book, Runaways, with issue number 26. The prevailing themes in that book are pretty parallel to those in Firefly/Serenity.
    You’re blessed in Columbia with two of the better comic book shops I’ve seen. Make use of them. Let the inner child out. Get to readin’, gorammit!

    Reply
  12. bud

    The following story shows why issues regarding the flag are of some importance. Personally I have no interest in where (or even if) the Confederate flag flys. But the fact that this is even discussed underscores a grim reality. Racism still exists in 2006. That’s why people like George Allen, a so-called “family values” guy continue to get re-elected.
    Sept. 24, 2006 | WASHINGTON — Three former college football teammates of Sen. George Allen say that the Virginia Republican repeatedly used an inflammatory racial epithet and demonstrated racist attitudes toward blacks during the early 1970s.
    “Allen said he came to Virginia because he wanted to play football in a place where ‘blacks knew their place,'” said Dr. Ken Shelton, a white radiologist in North Carolina who played tight end for the University of Virginia football team when Allen was quarterback. “He used the N-word on a regular basis back then.”

    Reply
  13. Capital A

    I’ll bet you appreciate the real world we provide, too: the private economy and the government handouts it sustains.
    Posted by: Lee | Sep 26, 2006 11:02:37 AM
    Lee, who is “we”? I’m contributing to the economy as well as anyone.
    We’re all in this American experiment together.

    Reply
  14. Dave

    This Shelton guy should be ashamed of himself. Allen has run for governor, senator, and other offices and never a peep. Now this Dem activist decides to nail Allen. This stinks like Mapes-Rather right before the 04 election, and the drunk driving judge in Vermont on Bush right before the 00 election. Will the Dems ever get any class? Probably not and that is why most decent people wouldnt vote for these political whores.

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  15. Randy Ewart

    Dave is an apologist for any foul mouthed bully. Ann Coulter says dispicable things, Allen has shown questionable character and Dave sees the democrats behind it all.
    Do you honestly believe Allen’s stories (PLURAL) about making up the term “macaca” then mistaking it for mohawk? His mother is from Tunisia where “macaca” is a COMMON term and you blame democrats? How about blaming the PUBLIC servant for using such dispicable terminology?

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  16. Lee

    Since Brad cut his teeth at a newspaper in Tennessee, I am sure he recalls Al Gore, Jr. and Tipper campaigning in Old South costumes, in a horse-drawn carriage complete with black driver and footmen.

    Reply
  17. LexWolf

    Deer In The Headlights
    The stories accusing George Allen of using the N-word continue to look stranger and stranger. Yesterday’s revelation that Larry Sabato, Virginia’s most well-known political scientist, joined another former Allen classmate, Christopher Taylor, in publicly accusing Allen of using the racial epithet. However, these sourcings have also begun to look rather peculiar. Now Sabato appears to be backing away from his first-person claim, telling Chris Matthews that he was relaying information from other sources and declining to identify them:
    Sabato, who made his comments during an interview on Chris Matthews’ “Hardball” program on MSNBC, later declined to specifically identify his sources.
    “My sources are former classmates who came to me with stories that matched up,” Sabato said late Monday night. “I never solicited them. They came to me during the past few months.”
    Initially, Sabato’s claims suggested that Allen used the word around Sabato himself, but the two never spent any time together in college or afterwards, Allen’s campaign insisted. In fact, Sabato spent his time after college working for the Democratic Party. Now he feels perfectly comfortable confirming rumors from unidentified sources … with rumors from other unidentified sources.
    Taylor, on the other hand, does insist that he heard the epithet first-hand when he visited Allen’s residence in the early 80s. He said that Allen told him that only black people ate the turtles at the pond, but used the N-word to do so. Allen’s ex-wife recalls Taylor’s visit and completely rejects his story, which seems pretty substantial coming from a former spouse:
    The Allen camp released a statement from Allen’s first wife refuting Taylor’s story. Anne Waddell, who was married to Allen from 1980 to 1984, said she recalled Taylor coming to their home to buy a puppy.
    “I can say with absolute certainty that his recollection that George said anything at all that could be considered racially insensitive is completely false,” she said. “He would never utter such a word.”
    Waddell said, “I was the one who fished for the turtles in our pond because they were eating the young goslings. The person who ate the turtles was our neighbor.”
    The Hampton Times also notes that Taylor also is a political activist who wants to see Allen defeated.
    The original source, Ken Shelton, also claimed that Allen put a deer head into the mailbox of Virginia African-Americans while in college, a story repeated by The New Republic’s Ryan Lizza in an article helpfully titled “Pond Scum”. That sounds like such an outlandish story that one would have difficulty believing that someone could make it up. Fortunately, there was no need to do so. Earlier this year, a North Carolina teenager put deer parts in mailboxes in Hoke County, a story which got good regional coverage…..
    Either this is quite the coincidence, or dismembering deers and mailing them to neighbors has the same allure in the South as cow-tipping does here in the Midwest. It certainly sounds like Shelton might have lifted this story and attributed it to Allen as a means of strengthening his allegations against the Senator.
    One thing is certain: the only first-hand sources that have gone on the record have political axes to grind against Allen and their stories have fallen apart under close scrutiny. It’s a smear campaign, a character assassination in slow motion, and one that should shame James Webb and his campaign. They have yet to distance themselves from these attacks, and one has to conclude that they have no desire to do so.

    Reply
  18. bud

    Dave writes:
    “This stinks like Mapes-Rather right before the 04 election, and the drunk driving judge in Vermont on Bush right before the 00 election. Will the Dems ever get any class?”
    Let’s set the record straight on these two issues (since you brought it up). The Mapes-Rather story was based on the fact that the Decider failed, among other things, to get his physical to be re-qualified to fly F-102s. The only minor part of that whole story, a part never fully proven, is that one of the documents supporting the allegation was a forgery. The main fact in that story was true (Bush never did get his physical) and even the Decider has never denied it. That very important truth was lost in all the hubub over the allegedly forged document.
    Same with the drunk driving story. No one has denied the veracity of that story. Bush was arrested for drunk driving. Again, for someone who supposedly brought dignity back to the White House that incident is important. Drunk driving is very serious. And lying about it, as Bush did, is also.
    As for Mr. Allen. Let’s hope these serious allegations, like the “alleged” forged document, don’t get dismissed until proven one way or the other. Actually Lex, there is one other thing that is certain: George Allen DID use the racial slur Macaca. His explainations are the most implausible aspect of this whole story.

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  19. Randy Ewart

    Using the racial slur, “macaca”, gives credence to the former classmates making similar allegations. Lex overlooks that tiny detail. Besides, is it really that far of a stretch to believe a self-styled country boy who showed an affinity for the confederate flag, going to college in the South in the early 70s used the n-word?
    Allen’s friends and close associates (including members of his campaign staff) have stepped forward to discount these stories. Lex conveniently grants them substantial credibility. And of course, someone else putting a deer head in a mailbox is strong evidence that Allen is innocent.

    Reply
  20. LexWolf

    I don’t know about you lefties but it looks to me as if we have one guy (that’s singular – no classmates) with an obvious axe to grind making these accusations. On the other side, we have several people with no stake in the issue saying the N-word never happened. We report, you decide!
    ” Joe Gieck, 35-year UVA trainer: “I seem to recall that Ken Shelton got the ‘Wizard’ nickname for his pass catching ability and before George Allen came to the University of Virginia.”
    George Korte, UVA linebacker ‘70-’73: “Ken Shelton received his nickname because of his ability as a tight end to magically get open and catch the football not because he shared someone’s last name.”
    Charlie Hale, UVA center ‘70-’73: I have always known him by the nickname, ‘Wizard’. I have always thought the name came from his ability to catch passes … or his ability to somehow get open in the field. Personally I believe that he was a true ‘Wizard’ because he always had the ability to sneak out after curfew and never get caught.”
    Doug Jones, UVA defensive back ‘71-’74 and roomate of Ken Shelton: “I was on the University of Virginia football team with George Allen for the 1972 and 1973 seasons. During that time I never heard George Allen use any racially disparaging word nor did I ever witness or hear about him acting in a racially insensitive manner.”
    George Korte, UVA linebacker ‘70-’73: “Contrary to Ken Shelton, I have kept up with George Allen the past thirty-five years. During this time, I have never known or heard him use racial epithets to describe blacks either in public or private. … George Allen did not use racial epithets or demonstrate racist attitudes towards blacks in the early 1970s.”
    Charlie Hale, UVA center ‘70-’73: ““During the 34 years I have known George Allen I have never heard him use racial slurs or derogatory language to describe a person or group of persons.”

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  21. Randy Ewart

    A bunch of his former teammates standing up for him, what a surprise. As far as your quote the only first-hand sources that have gone on the record have political axes to grind against Allen and their stories have fallen apart under close scrutiny., how has Shelton’s story fallen apart?
    Once again, Lex overlooks the “macaca” statement and the lack of honesty in the explanations that followed. Clearly Allen is not above using racial slurs.
    This problem with honesty was reinforced by his claim that he was unaware of his mother’s ancestory a month after he admitted she revealed it to him.
    He referred to the noose at his office as symbol of his strong stance on crime. He later referred to it as a lasso as part of a collection of western memorabilia.
    He stated his confederate flag was part of his flag collection, but was well known to be a champion of the confederacy.
    He can deny using racial slurs in college all he wants. He has shown a willingness to use a racial slur and difficulty with honesty. Having a handful of teammate buddies support him is meaningless. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Senator Allen is feeling the fire on his backside quite a bit now, and deservingly so.

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  22. LexWolf

    Heh. “A bunch of his former teammates standing up for him” but of course we can’t possibly believe them. Yet one former teammate/classmate making uncorroborated accusations is obviously the Fountain Of Truth. Never mind that he’s a Democrat activist with an obvious axe to grind. Reminds me of the 250 Swift Boat Vets who were all “lying” about the great Jean Francois Kerry. We all knbow where that got him.

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  23. Dave

    The Dems predictably start pulling out the race cards in just about every tight election. Allen is particularly dangerous to the Dems because he has exhibited broad presidential appeal. I think this whole episode will actually gain votes for George because moderate Americans are truly sick of this character assassination stuff. Especially when its pulled off just before an upcoming election. Then you have the hypocrisy where Senator “Sheets” Byrd can use the N-word and its ignored, Jesse Jackson can use it and that is a so what, but let a Republican (a person from the non racist party and the party that freed the slaves) even get falsely accused of a racial slur, and the liberal media jumps on the fake bandwagon. To the dying liberal media, it can be fake as long as its accurate. Who cares if its real or not, there are elections to steal here. George Allen will win and have the last laugh as his accusers are exposed as the frauds that they represent.

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  24. Lee

    There are no witnesses claiming that George Allen did anything racist.
    There is a Democratic Party operative, on the TV show of former Democratic Party staffer Chris Matthews, saying he heard someone say that he heard George Allen use “the N-word” 35 YEARS AGO, in college.
    So did Richard Pryor.
    So did Red Fox.
    So does Eddie Murphy.
    So does Chris Rock.
    When have the Democrats acted outraged and called for a boycott of racist comedians?

    Reply
  25. Capital A

    Dave, the Republican Party that “freed the slaves” was essentially the Democratic Party at the time and vice-versa. Did you even attend history class for one minute in high school? Did you miss the great political party flip-flop?
    Lee, blacks may use the word (usually for comedic purposes or terms of endearment) while members of any other race may not. Yes, this is a double standard (among many others regarding race, sex and economic status)which our society has implicitly agreed upon. The fact that this is such a foreign concept to you proves that you are either very old or very young.
    Do we really have to launch into a deep exploration of the subtle differences between n–ga and n–ger for you? If so, I’ll try to find you a link. You may not agree with what you read, but society has spoken.
    The words even take on varied meanings depending upon who speaks them. Strange, but so are we humans. There are terms you would accept a Southerner using in relation to you that you would not accept from a northerner (if you were not friendly with that person, especially).
    If you can’t accept those nuances of American culture, then you better ask somebody, cracker! See, I can say that since we’re both “down.”

    Reply
  26. Lee

    Bill and Hillary Clinton were both caught on microphone using racial slurs about blacks while they were co-presidents. Was that comedy, or do you have some other excuse for accepting them as “nuances of American culture”?

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  27. Lee

    And you forgot to address the FACT that no one actually claims to have heard George Allen say this alleged slur 35 YEARS AGO, much less that he has done anything racist while in office.
    So far, it’s just another Democrat lie to smear an opponent.

    Reply
  28. Preston

    Dave, you are right about Senator Byrd. He is an idiot who has no place in the US Senate. Bill Clinton is personally a dirtbag, but was an effective president (in my own opinion, of course). These are things that we have known for a long time. They need not be reiterated in every arguement.
    The revelations about Allen’s character are new. That is why they have relevance. Why is it that those on the right can never make simple concessions concerning the character of those in their party? For the most part all politicians are douchebags. Why can you not see this?

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  29. LexWolf

    “Did you miss the great political party flip-flop?”
    Nope. Didn’t miss it because it never happened. That’s one of the great urban legends out there. The same Dems who stood in schoolhouse doors in 1960 are still the same racist Dems now. Sheets Byrd is still a Dem senator, Fritz Hollings was a Dem until he retired and almost all the Dems who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stayed Dems until they retired or died.
    I know it’s not easy to accept that your party is thoroughly racist and has always been thoroughly racist but that’s the truth, no matter how much you would like to deny it.

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  30. Preston

    Fabrications???? WTF???? You mean like his mother telling him he’s Jewish and Allen lying about it when asked? Allen slurring an Indian on video? Total fabrications, huh? You’re out to damn lunch man.

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  31. Capital A

    Nope. Didn’t miss it because it never happened. That’s one of the great urban legends out there. The same Dems who stood in schoolhouse doors in 1960 are still the same racist Dems now.
    Posted by: LexWolf | Sep 27, 2006 8:52:21 AM
    Uh, Lex, I was referring to quite a few years before that, but thanks for confirming your ignorance as well. It’s called basic American history.
    I don’t have “a party,” as you put it. I judge individual candidates on ther own merits and weaknesses. I would never classify an entire party as racist, as you have. I know far too many Republicans who aren’t overtly racist for me to do that.
    This is why the extreme left and right will never hold power for long, just as this country is currently repealing its once-glowing approval for many of the objects of your man-crushes.
    You can fool America about your aims but never for too long as history is never too kind to extremists.

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  32. Lee

    I already addressed the fabrications about Allen on the Chris Matthews program. If you have updated information about the third hand anonymous source, please post it.
    And then tell us why Clinton using “the N word” gets a free pass from you and the press.
    …as if we don’t already know.

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  33. Capital A

    I’m no Clinton apologist, but Lee, provide me with a link that proves they slurred blacks publicly. I’ll be glad to take a look. What may work better for you is to relay the rumor you heard concerning this (and are now positing as fact) so that I can investigate it my for myself.
    If he did slur blacks, and they accepted it, it is because (for whatever reason) Clinton carries currency with blacks. That is undeniable as he was referred to in that (in)famous book as “the first black President.”
    What you need to understand, Lee, is that blacks (or any other race) don’t think with one, all encompassing, perfectly synchronized mind any more than white people do. This blog is proof of that.
    Some blacks would be highly upset at being called a n–ger, while others might blow it off. And the reasons for both reactions are myriad…
    Some of my friends have given me tacit or overt “permission” to use the word while others have made it clear that it should never be uttered. I never use it…period.
    My dad made that obvious when I was 7 and asked what the word meant. He told me not to repeat it, so I shouted it out right after.
    Five seconds later, I was taking a moment to pick myself up off the floor and trying to stop the ringing in my left ear. From that point on, it seemed clear enough to me, and I didn’t ask any more questions on that matter.

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  34. Lee

    I saw Clinton live on MSNBC, caught by an open microphone, cursing “that n—-r”.
    It was played several times that day.
    Maybe you can find it on their website. At least it is a real event I can point you to, unlike the fabrication spewed on Chris Matthews.
    Likewise, lots of people in Carthage, TN can tell you about Al Gore, Jr campaigning as a plantation owner, with black servants.

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  35. Lee

    If blacks let Clinton and other Democrats get away with racial slurs, it is because they really accept the term. They just fake outrage against people who are not on their political team. And a lot of them are more racist than Robert Byrd or Al Gore, Sr.

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  36. LexWolf

    “I was referring to quite a few years before that”
    It doesn’t matter how far back you go. Start right at the beginning when the Dem party was founded to support and preserve slavery. Then continue through the Civil War, nightriders, Jim Crow, the KKK, segregated lunch counters, bathrooms and schools, the CRAs they opposed and right through to today when they are still the party of racism.

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  37. Capital A

    You can try to cater history to suit your own worldview all you want, but anyone with even a cursory knowledge of American politics could and should call you a fool for doing so.
    No political party, specific group or type of people are more or less racist than any other. I’m inclined to think you’ve chosen to go down this path of misdirection because (in light of the most current news), things are not so black and white within even your own zealous party.

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  38. Lee

    I guess that is a backhanded way of admitting your own racism, and the racism of Democrats and liberals, with the disclaimer that it’s “no worse than anyone else”.
    The rest of us reject it, but if it makes a liberal feel better about his racism, at least it is a first step towards examining what’s wrong with their belief system.

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  39. Brad Warthen

    bill, I appreciate that you appreciated the Castaneda reference.
    As for the “you’re a racist” stuff above — do I have to start cracking heads again?
    I guess I will. That’s the trouble with rules. If you have ’em, you gotta enforce ’em.
    Also, Capital A, maybe you’re not exactly the religious type, but I think Jesus said that calling someone else a fool is pretty much a mortal sin. Herb, am I right on that?
    Anyway, that’s how I read Matthew 5:22.
    You know, if everybody would heed that admonishment, I wouldn’t have to impose rules on the blog.

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  40. Steve Gordy

    Once again, I note Robert Byrd being taken to task as a Democratic example of racism, but no mention of his eminence the late Strom Thurmond, with his (publicly) unacknowledged black child, or the late Albert Watson, whom Strom attempted to foist on the voters of SC as a gubernatorial candidate. Huh?

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  41. Dave

    Well, I have to agree with Brad. The racism gotchas can go on forever. Today, The Dem candidate for Senate in VA, Webb, would not clearly deny that he had ever used the N word. All silliness except for the fact that the liberal media demonizes those that it wants to over that silliness.

    On another separate reality topic, did anyone else catch where a faction within the ACLU is campaigning to remove the ACLU board because it approved of spying on its members and limiting free speech of all officers. Talk about hypocrisy, this is the org. that brought litigation against the administration for spying on TERRORISTS. I guess these are fascist liberals..

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  42. Randy Ewart

    The Dems predictably start pulling out the race cards in just about every tight election. – Dave
    Allen drew that card himself. Dave apparently condones using “macaca” which is the n-word in other cultures.

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  43. Randy Ewart

    The same Dems who stood in schoolhouse doors in 1960 are still the same racist Dems now. – Lex
    Did Lee post as Lex?
    Lex, that was your lamest and most petty post. You may call others names like a child, but atleast you had shown yourself to be smart enough to be beyond such a pathetic statement like this one.

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  44. Randy Ewart

    Calling someone a Raca, fool or other nasty names out of anger, as referenced in Matthew 5:25, is not a mortal sin in of itself. It’s about intent. If it’s a “trifling” or a heat of the moment comment, then it’s venial.
    When Lee posts that “teachers are not professionals” and I indignantly type “Lee, you blockhead…” then I’ve committed a venial sin. If the criticism is warranted, it may not be a sin at all. I’ve leave the latter conclusion to my fellow blogsters.

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  45. Lee

    Some teachers are professionals.
    Public school teachers in South Carolina are contract employees. I posted a link to the description of their legal status and the contracts.
    It was Republicans who passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act over the filibusters of Democrats.
    It was Richard Nixon who created the Earned Income Tax Credit and many modern programs to fight poverty by rewarding work, instead of handing out money through local neighborhood political cronies.

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  46. Lee

    After Brad Warthen spent years on a crusade against Confederate relics which was based on smearing the supporters of Southern heritage as racists, he now tells his blog readers that he won’t tolerate such smears.

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  47. Capital A

    Also, Capital A, maybe you’re not exactly the religious type, but I think Jesus said that calling someone else a fool is pretty much a mortal sin. Herb, am I right on that?
    Posted by: Brad Warthen | Sep 27, 2006 3:04:39 PM
    Oh, yeah? Where does telling a bald-faced lie and misrepresenting facts rank on that list? Consult the 2000-plus year old storybook and get back to me on that.
    Religious hyposcrisy…love that New (car) Testament smell!
    I will apologize for calling Lex a fool, however. There is no excuse for that, but it is frustrating when you know a person is smart enough to know what he is posting is a falsehood and on top of that, you know that some people (out of their zealous devotion to a party)are buying every word he posts.
    That’s how lies become truth. Surely, avid churchgoers know a thing or two anout that…

    Reply
  48. Lee

    If falsehoods make you angry, listening to Bill Clinton lie about Bin Laden, or Chris Matthews lie about George Allen, must really enrage you.

    Reply
  49. Dave

    The good thing about der Slickmeister is that he wags that finger when he lies. Gives it away every time. He is truly a classless excuse of an ex-President. Arkansas white trash to the bone. I bet a lot of people in this nation wish he would go off somewhere and golf or build houses or something. Better yet, why doesnt he go and find UBL? Then he would have a positive legacy.

    Reply
  50. bud

    ….Then he would have a positive legacy.
    How about peace, prosperity, declining crime rates, improving health statistics, respect and admiration from around the world. Now there’s a legacy anyone can be proud of. Sadly, it’s all gone.

    Reply
  51. Lee

    Clinton cooked the books to whitewash his failures. One example is how his economic advisors had their own GDP figures, which factored up the actual economic activity based on things like the increased speed of computers.
    His two main advisors, both friends of Hillary, wrote their masters theses and doctoral dissertations on the glory of central planning. One even used communist Romania as the primary example of a great healthcare system. Then we find out they were selling orphans infected with HIV to Western couples, and the leaders were pocketing the cash. Very Clintonesque.

    Reply
  52. LexWolf

    And the plot thickens:
    Webb’s comments to the Times-Dispatch prompted Allen campaign officials to direct a reporter to Dan Cragg, a former acquaintance of Webb’s, who said Webb used the word while describing his own behavior during his freshman year at the University of Southern California in the early 1960s. Webb later transferred to the U.S. Naval Academy.
    Cragg, 67, who lives in Fairfax County, said on Wednesday that Webb described taking drives through the black neighborhood of Watts, where he and members of his ROTC unit used racial epithets and pointed fake guns at blacks to scare them.
    “They would hop into their cars, and would go down to Watts with these buddies of his,” Cragg said Webb told him. “They would take the rifles down there. They would call then [epithets], point the rifles at them, pull the triggers and then drive off laughing. One night, some guys caught them and beat . . . them. And that was the end of that.”
    Cragg said Webb told him the Watts story during a 1983 interview for a Vietnam veterans magazine. Cragg, who described himself as a Republican who would vote for Allen, did not include the story in his article. He provided a transcript of the interview, but the transcript does not contain the ROTC story. He said he still remembers the exchange vividly more than 20 years later.
    Webb, who is in Texas for fundraising events, did not respond to repeated requests for comment. Todd said Webb denied the allegations in a conversation with her.

    Reply
  53. Capital A

    Arkansas white trash to the bone. I bet a lot of people in this nation wish he would go off somewhere and golf or build houses or something. Better yet, why doesnt he go and find UBL? Then he would have a positive legacy.
    Posted by: Dave | Sep 28, 2006 9:45:25 AM
    And this is the other Dave, the one who forgets his own calls to civility…
    If he ain’t bipolar, then I don’t know Arkansaw!

    Reply
  54. bud

    This all sounds like the desperate throes of a campaign that is floundering. Smear the opposition with hearsay and innuendo. What had once been a solid 20+ point lead has withered away to become very competitive. This, thanks to Allen’s very recent (and stupid) “macaca” comment? Do you really buy his ridiculous explanations?
    But aside from that, Allen really hasn’t been much of a United States Senator. He’s way too much in lock-step with the failed policies of the Bush Administration.
    Webb is generally conservative (served as Navy Secretary under Reagan) but not reactionary. He served his country honorably in uniform (something not many Republicans can claim). He’ll do a great job as a senator. Granted, he needs another 5 or 6 percentage points but this race could get interesting given the complete and utter chaos in Iraq. People are getting fed up with that whole mess.

    Reply
  55. Lee

    How about some of the black radicals (and very racist) who now have moved from jail time to teaching at colleges (like USC), with no sign of changing their views or rhetoric?

    Reply
  56. Dave

    Cap A – You have opened a new threshold for civility with that comment. Now, we have to be civil toward public figures we post about let alone toward other bloggers. That may be a tough standard to comply with. Let’s see, Saddam Hussein is a Type A Driver personality with a penchant toward draconian actions against his countrymen and neighbors. When not attacking Kuwait or Iran, he may possibly have helped elderly women across the street. When he gassed the Kurdish women and children, he probably lamented the fact that those citizens couldnt pay him taxes in the future. Even though Saddam is ethically challenged to say the least, we must look at his good side. How does that suit you Cap A? Bipolar my backside.

    Reply
  57. Herb Brasher

    I’m a couple of days late, but I’ll respond to your post anyway, Brad. I’m a Protestant, as you well know, so I don’t really buy the distinction between mortal and venial sins. It seems to me that it is a bit of a legalistic try to let some sins off as “not so important.” The point is to treat everyone with as much respect as is honestly possible.
    I’d like to quote from Dallas Willard, The Divine Conspiracy,, which contains the best commentary I have yet read on “The Discourse on the Hillside,” more commonly referred to as the “Sermon on the Mount”:

    Jesus . . . is by no means giving here three more things not to do, three more points on a “list” of things to be avoided. Certainly, we are not to do them, but that is not the point. If that were all, the enterprising human mind would soon find its way around them. Don’t we already know that not getting angry is the way some people have of winning? And don’t we hear people say, “I don’t get mad. I just get even”? One doesn’t have to be mad to be mean.
    So . . . we need to put the idea of laws entirely out of our minds. Jesus is working, as already indicated, at the much deeper level of the source of actions, good and bad. He is taking us deeper into the kind of beings we are, the kind of love God has for us, and the kind of love that, as we share it, brings us into harmony with his life. No one can be “right” in the kingdom sense who is not transformed at this level. And then, of course, the issue of not being wrongly angry, not expressing contempt, not calling people “stupid bastards,” and so on is autmatoically taken care of.
    When I go to New York City, I do not have to think about not going to London or Atlanta. People do not meet me at the airport or station and exclaim over what a great thing I did in not going somewhere else. I took the steps to go to New York City, and that took care of everything.
    Likewise, when I treasure those around me and see them as God’s creatures designed for his eternal purposes, I do not make an additional point of not hating them or calling them twerps or fools. Not doing those things is simply a part of the package . . . .

    That being said, Jesus does call someone a fool once.. His precedent obviously motivated the Apostle Paul to do the same thing in 1 Cor. 15:36, to someone who denies the reality of the spiritual world and the resurrection and final judgment. It is, as Brad suggests, a labeling of character, a person, who, according to Proverbs, willfully rebels against God, and will learn from nobody. I suppose the best equivalent (at least one I can quote on this blog) would be calling somebody Schwein in German. Some people deserve it, but we had better be pretty careful when we use it.

    Reply
  58. Lee

    Saddam’s Fingerprints on 1993 N.Y. Bombings
    The Wall Street Journal By Laurie Mylroie June 28, 1993
    Military retaliation from Baghdad was the main administration concern following Saturday’s strike on Iraq. Yet U.S. officials should start thinking seriously about the question of retaliation through terror. It is quite possible, for example, that there was a connection between Saddam and recent attempts to blow up Manhattan. It is quite possible that New York’s terror is Saddam’s revenge.
    1993 WTC Bomber Escaped to Baghdad
    60 Minutes: The Man Who Got Away May 31, 2002
    Abdul Rahman Yasin is the only participant in the first attempt to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993 who was never caught. Yasin, who was indicted in the bombing but escaped, was interviewed by CBS News’ Lesley Stahl in an Iraqi installation near Baghdad last Thursday, May 23. Stahl’s report appeared on 60 Minutes, Sunday June 2nd.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/31/60minutes/main510795.shtml

    Reply
  59. Randy Ewart

    But a direct al-Qaeda role in the 1993 attack hasn’t been established. – USA Today 9/17/03
    Sadamn has not been connected to either WTC attack. If he was, this incredibly important fact would have been used constantly now by the administration.
    Lee is throwing out red herrings to divert attention from the fact that he is the father of Anna Nicole Smith’s baby.

    Reply
  60. LexWolf

    “It is, as Brad suggests, a labeling of character, a person, who, according to Proverbs, willfully rebels against God, and will learn from nobody. I suppose the best equivalent (at least one I can quote on this blog) would be calling somebody Schwein in German.”
    Herb, I’ve never heard Schwein defined that way, nor have I ever heard anyone use it as an epithet. Sau maybe, or Saubär or even Schweinshund, but just Schwein? Could you elaborate on that?

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  61. Dave

    Herb – You referenced — When I go to New York City, I do not have to think about not going to London or Atlanta. People do not meet me at the airport or station and exclaim over what a great thing I did in not going somewhere else. I took the steps to go to New York City, and that took care of everything.

    That is about the weakest analogous point I have ever read or seen. Philosophical babble would be my description of it. Sorry.

    Reply
  62. Dave

    Randy, is the Smith thing necessary. When I first saw that, I thought someone else had copped your screen name to be silly.

    Reply
  63. Lee

    IRAQ LINKS to Al Qaeda and both WTC attacks
    Ossama Bin Laden was indicted in 1995 for his role in the 1993 WTC bombing, yet Clinton still claims he had no cause to have him captured and extradicted to the US. Bank records show funds transfers from Iraq to Al Qaeda members.
    One of the Al Qaeda members who bombed the WTC escaped to Iraq.
    Prior to the Sept 11, 2001 attacks Saddam had a mural painted which shows an Iraqi airliner crashing into an American skyscraper. It was photographed by our spies and captured intact by US Marines in 2003.

    Reply
  64. Capital A

    Bipolar my backside.
    Posted by: Dave | Sep 28, 2006 2:48:44 PM
    They’re making a sequel to Brokeback Mountain?
    Someone really needs to sudy the phenomenon where conservatives rationalize that they can make fun of and cast aspersions on anyone while also feeling that they are immune to the same treatment. It’s no longer a “hoot” for them when someone gives back to them better than what they can offer.
    Let me see…reading from the conservative script…what are the words? Playback on…starting truth translator…feeding in the countless posts of Lee, Lex and Dave.
    Translation achieved:
    “How dare you make fun of me better than I can hurl cheap shots at you or anyone else in the world! I’m supposed to be the be-all-and-end-all bully! Wahhh!!!”
    Contrary to your previously held beliefs, I think at least two of you are having to deal with the fact that there are people out there (on the other side of your worldview) who are more well-rounded and, quite simply, smarter than you are.
    Wait, that wasn’t very Christian of me to say, now was it?
    Another curious facet of this entire affair concerns the case of the editor of this blog always coming to the explicit and tacit defense of the conservative side in most matters. Why is that? I accept that it’s his blog, but if fair play is what’s intended, he should address his own personal prejudices.
    A fool is fair game to me. Derision makes us realize our failures and weaknesses. Lord knows, I’ve had my moments of mistake made public and am a better man for it.
    Nothing is so wonderful as when a fool realizes his folly.

    Reply
  65. Lee

    Why do Democrats feel that the facts about Iraq and the terrorists is a “cheap shot” against themselves? Guilt for their failures?

    Reply
  66. Herb Brasher

    Hey Lex,
    Calling somebody a Schwein in German is about as below the belt as it goes. Sau or Wutz is basically the same thing, except that I don’t remember Sau being used much that way; it is more often used, I think (but I lived among the Swabians in southern Germany most of my time there, which would explain my understanding here)as an add-on to describe something really big, as in saumaessig gross (and for you non-German speaking people out there, “gross” doesn’t mean anything yucky in German, it just refers to “big”), which as you know means that something is “as big as a sow.” Nothing derogatory meant there. But, even so, my German friends told me not to use the word saumaessigin a sermon, talk, or even in polite conversation. References to pigs are just generally not polite.
    But as far as Schwein is concerned, I’m sure you could get taken to court if you called somebody a Schwein in public. It’s the same as saying they are incorrigibly immoral and a hopeless case. I remember one conversation I heard on TV of a woman who said to her philandering husband, “you have the morals of a Schwein! Or the Germans would probably use it to describe a child molester.
    Like I wrote before, I can’t think of an English word that I could use, or at least would want to use in a post here. And Brad would probably scrub it if I did!

    Reply
  67. Dave

    Cap A – you are apologizing quite often lately. Sometimes it pays to think a little before you ramble on in a blog. I am pretty thick skinned myself and sometimes the incivility is the most humorous of the comments posted. Furthermore, Brad has proven over and over he has no distinct leanings to the left or right. You may be showing a bit of paranoia.

    Fools rush in, where wise men never tread!!!

    Reply
  68. bill

    This is some trite,tiresome,text.I’m going over to Billy’s blog and see if he’s posted Brad’s pic.If he used that Confedrate pose,his reader’s will probably be a bit confused.
    ps-“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
    J. Mercer – R. Bloom via Alexander Pope

    Reply
  69. Capital A

    I’ve only apologized once in recent memory (for implying Lex is a fool). If a singular time means the same as “often” to you, that wouldn’t surprise me at all. Unlike you and fellow cowboys, I’m not afraid to admit when I am wrong.
    I still do see your written persona as quite bipolar. Sometimes you can be lucid and laid back, and then other times, it seems you are just following the lead of your posse.
    Be a leader for once and not just blindly follow a party line, mewing what you’ve heard from the herd.
    I don’t care which way Mr. Warthen leans politically. I was wondering aloud why he is always blind to the comments of conservatives which are far and away more insulting towards individuals and groups of people and which usually are the initiation for the insulting behavior of those who oppose them.
    Unless you’re using that final phrase ironically, then I think you’ve missed the bullseye on its intended meaning, which wouldn’t surprise me either.

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  70. Randy Ewart

    BW catches it from both sides. I’ve heard him called a liberal and a conservative apologist. Mary Rosh, or whoever he is, called me “profoundly stupid” for suggesting that Brad must be playing fair if both sides beat up on him.
    Dave, apologies for the ANS “joke”.
    The Repubs losing another guy to scandal – talk about a role reversal from the early 90s! I think this reveals a need for some change.

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  71. bud

    We’re up to 4 now: Libby, Delay, Foley and Ney. The preachy party of family values is really bizarre. Money laundering, perjury, outing CIA agents, accepting bribes, racial slurs and now soliciting a 16 year old for who knows what. And we’re supposed to trust this bunch with national security? No wonder so many Americans are dying on their watch.

    Reply
  72. Dave

    Bud, Delay hasn’t been convicted of a thing, same with the totally innocent and wronged Libby. Ney and now Foley are a different matter, but the Dems have Jefferson from LA, Mulholland from WV, Conyers of Michigan, and several other corrupt pols. And then you have NJ Gov. McGreevey, who used public funds to pick up other queers on the NJ turnpike rest stops. As for Foley, he did the honorable thing and resigned. While Barney Frank, who basically admitted doing the same things, still proudly serves in the House. Sickening isnt it.

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  73. Randy Ewart

    Dave posts some funny stuff…oops, is he serious?!
    “Foley did the honorable thing.” Oxymoron as well as plain moron
    “totally innocent and wronged Libby” – at best he acted innappropriately, unethically, and stupidly
    Delay resigned simply because of media pressure – yep, that’s typical Delay to cave in like that…oh ya, his investigation is on going as well…tick tick tick
    Nice red herrings thrown in, aside from Ice Box Jefferson, what do the dems have at the moment:
    Conyers using staff to run personal errands and to baby sit, yawn
    Mulholland? I googled and even did a search on Fox News – nada.
    McGreevy’s used his position to make moves on adults. This is hardly earth shattering news for an elected official. This doesn’t reach the level of a Senator Packwood who made repeated unwanted advances – it is simply more sensational. Funny how McGreevy making moves on adults then resigning is so bad, but Foley making moves on MINORS and resigning is “honorable”.
    Throwing in Barney Frank is a “sickening” effort on your part Dave. There’s no substance to your “he BASICALLY admitted to the same thing” but you try to bolster your point by taking the low road using the gay card.
    There is a clear pattern of abuse of power by several republicans. The dems did the same thing in the 80s and early 90s. I would think you would care more about cleaning up the mess in your party in lieu of simply circling the wagons. But, party comes first and country second I guess.
    Of course, you have the State of Denial book kicking your butt as well.

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  74. Dave

    Randy, Contrary to what you think, I want all the bad apples out of the bushel. Even moreso with Republicans because the GOP has a higher set of standards. One example, if a Dem congressperson gets indicted, they don’t have to resign by party rules. The GOP set its standards higher and thus DeLay had to resign based on the unethical and Kremlin like techniques of a partisan wacko prosecutor in Austin, TX. How do you know that McGreevey didnt pick up boys under 18? In fact, the odds are very high that he did. And Barney Frank had a male prostitute living in his DC apartment with him some time back. Oh, but that was a platonic relationship to be sure. Right.. By the way, I am not playing the gay card, The immoral gays are playing it, and I feel sorry for all the decent gay persons who are smeared by people like Foley and Frank. But again, look at the distinction, Barney is considered honorable in the Dem party while a creep like Foley is bounced like a rubber ball. Quite a difference.

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  75. Randy Ewart

    How do you know that McGreevey didnt pick up boys under 18? – Dave
    Asinine question.
    Your immoral gays comment reflects a cafeteria approach to Christianity. Immorality or sinfulness, as outlined in the Bible, includes a whole lot more than homosexuality. I guess your selectively using our faith to justify YOUR opinion on who is immoral and who isn’t.
    You ARE playing the gay card because you make a bigger issue out of what homosexuals do compared to others – the worst example being your comment “Foley did the honorable thing and resigned”. Yet, you don’t attribute McGreevy that same “honorable” action. So you are not playing the gay card, but you find more fault with homosexuality that pedophilia.
    “Frank lived with a gay prostitute” is another example. How many of these guys have had prostitutes and mistresses? Atleast Frank, if true, had a willing adult. Packwood and Arnie were making repeated unwanted advances on women. But they’re not gay so it’s ok.
    The bottom line is, if you cared about your country more than your party, you’d be outraged. I hope Ice Box Jefferson gets hammered. It’s an injustice perpetrated on my country. I felt the same about Clinton – country first Dave!

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  76. Dave

    Randy, Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

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  77. Lee

    God only judges your soul. He orders man to obey and enforce His laws and such other laws as are necessary for order, stability, and morality.

    Reply
  78. bud

    Let’s recap:
    Andrew Johnston impeachement witch hunt – GOP
    U.S. Grant Nepotism Scandal – GOP
    Teapot Dome – GOP
    Watergate – GOP
    Iran Contra – GOP
    Bill Clinton impeachment witch hunt – GOP
    Jack Abramoff – GOP
    Lying us into Iraq war – GOP
    Yup Dave, the GOP is certainly the party of high moral principals.

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  79. Dave

    Randy, that was God’s scripture that I posted. God defines what is wrong and immoral, not the moral relativists of today who believe that basically nothing is wrong if it feels good. What don’t you understand about how abusing a child is immoral? I don’t have to be the judge, that is for God. Of course, those who ignore the scriptures and ignore God live in the present and don’t believe they will ever be judged. We have government law (based on moral codes) for immoral and illegal actions here. People like Foley should answer to his judges on earth and his bigger problem will be his judgement day with God.

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  80. Randy Ewart

    First, YOU are the one who summarized Foley’s actions with “Foley did the honorable thing” because he resigned while you bashed others. I’m the one who took his actions as being more serious.
    Second, yes we can judge actions based on scripture, but not people. Even a murderer can be saved. Foley’s Day will come and it will not be one of us as Judge.

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  81. Dave

    Why didnt Barney Frank resign? What about Rep. Studds? What about Gary Condit? What about Ted Kennedy? All of these could not do the honorable action and resign. I did not infer that Foley’s pedophilia was honorable.

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  82. Randy Ewart

    I am not suggesting you condone Foley’s illegal conduct. My point was you used a terrible double standard. Your initial response about Foley was “he did the honorable thing and resigned”. In that same post, you blasted McGreevy for his misconduct, yet he also resigned. Both resigned, Foley’s actions were 100 times worse, yet you criticized the democrat only.
    My main focus in bringing up the misdeeds of the republicans is that there is a clear culture of an abuse of power. You can bring up immoral and questionable behavior, but the abuse of an elected position is an injustice against the country. The dems were guilty in the early 90s, and now the republicans are. I don’t understand why you and other republicans are so dismissive of this. Where is your outrage? My conclusion is you focus on party first and country second.
    Personally, I don’t care what party an abuser is in, I want justice. I am no fan of Pelosi, am ashamed of Clinton’s behavior with Lewinski, and want them to fry Ice Box Jefferson. Rex is an educator and a democrat, but I was appalled by his bar/band event especially considering all the teen drinking and driving deaths recently.
    Similarly, I admire and support Graham, McCain, and Liberman for their willingness to take unpopular positions because they put country first.

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  83. Capital A

    Randy, you’re not going to win against those who invest in and warp the morals of their favorite storybook. For them, the Bible is a buffet and they’ll swallow what they need, when they feel they need it just to linger on in ignorance.
    Even now, with every new insight into the Republican missteps concerning the war, they still lie in the bed they made as walls and ceiling of stone cave in on them.
    Just wait until we find out the true story about what has gone on in Guantanamo; we’re going to need more than prayers, to say the least.

    Reply
  84. LexWolf

    Hate to break it to you Dems and Dem supporters but Foley did nothing illegal. Improper yes, immoral yes, but not illegal.
    Mark Foley, Democrats Target A Gay Man
    …the age of sexual consent in the District of Columbia is 16 [the page was 17]…..
    ….Foley, 48, is not just unmarried….
    ….Is Mark Foley a pedophile based on the above incidents? Not according to DSM-IV….
    ….So right now, we know as fact that Mark Foley is not a pedophile, he has not broken any sexual consent laws nor has he violated any marriage vows…..
    ….Mark Foley is simply a gay man who has been forced out of office by the Democrat Party. I wonder what gay activists think of this, as they have a lost a strong vote of support?…..
    ….Mark Foley broke no laws and he is not a pedophile as claimed by the leftists but rather is simply a gay man. Mark Foley’s “Crime?” Being a Gay Republican…..

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  85. Dave

    Randy, McGreevey only resigned after a huge preponderance of evidence surfaced against him. He denied any wrongdoing. In fact, he really resigned when it was exposed that he put his boytoy young Israeli with no security background as head of NJ Homeland Security at about $100k a year plus perqs. Up to then, he denied all allegations. That is not honorable in any definition. But in the Democrat party, he could run again and be an honored man. They are a party of death, anti-family measures, and immorality. Plain and simple.

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  86. Lee

    People are not as surprised when Democrats are caught messing around with pages, or having a homosexual prostitution ring run out of their apartment.
    And part of the Democratic Party belief system is that morality is relative, just bunk, and that whatever someone can get away with is cool, and their private business.

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  87. Randy Ewart

    Toe that party line! Protect Foley at all costs.
    Lex, the page was 16 at the time and in Louisiana. The age of consent there is 17. Also, solicitation on the internet is different than an age of consent issue – look it up. But he’s your boy so keep up the fight.
    Dave, dig up all the dirt you want on McG, it pales in comparison with Foley’s sickness. But he’s your boy so keep up the fight. BTW, death penalty and Iraq war deaths are hardly pro-life – keep up the double standard.

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  88. LexWolf

    I don’t believe that Louisiana law applies in this case because Foley didn’t send the emails from there. Further, I’m not aware of any evidence or even allegations that he ever actually did anything besides send the emails.
    I’m not protecting Foley in any way, but simply pointing out the facts. It’s good that he did the right thing and resigned – good riddance. Of course, you’d never see that from the Dems where they simply close ranks and protect their guys at all costs. Barney is still there, Studds served for another 10 years and so on. It’s an undeniable fact that the GOP simply has higher ethical standards. Individual politicians may not always meet them but if they are found out they are usually gone post haste.
    BTW, can anyone tell me what the big difference is between the Foley case and the Lewinsky saga, except that Lewinsky was a couple of years older and female?

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  89. Randy Ewart

    “Couple years older” – nice blurring of the boundaries – 16, barely able to drive and a MINOR (heelloooo) VS a 21 year old. Shameful defense of him Lex.
    “GOP higher ethical standards? GOP wouldn’t circle the wagons?” Funny, the speaker of the house has called for an investigation (as if he had a choice) to uncover which republicans knew about Foley and when. One republican admitted to tell Hastert himself about it.
    Yep, State of Denial.
    BTW, he sent the emails to a “former SIXTEEN year old page” (no longer in DC and not 17 as you posted) and asked what the lad was doing in response to Katrina because the boy was back home. Your post and link regarding this was completely botched. You are really reaching to defend this scum bag.

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  90. Lee

    The Latino population in SC public schools increased 135% in the last 3 years, to 24,000.
    Without immigration enforcement, it is projected to increase 800% by the year 2018.
    Most of these students arrived here by illegal entry of themselves or their parents. They have the highest rates of failure and dropping out, and of gang association.
    Why would any American tolerate these freeloaders dragging down our school system?

    Reply
  91. bud

    Lex, you need to let the whole Foley defense go. He’s guilty as sin otherwise he wouldn’t have resigned. You just look like a party hack when you try to defend this scoundrel. Expecially since more keeps coming out on this incident. But I guess that’s what separates the hypocrical GOP from the Dems. When news of William Jefferson’s alleged bribery scandal broke the party leadership and most liberal talk show folks quickly condemed him and asked for his resgination.

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  92. Lee

    Of course Foley is guilty.
    So is Barney Frank, Gary Condit, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy and others who were defended by their party for even worse sexual harassment of pages, interns, and other escapades.

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  93. Dave

    Bud – you posted – But I guess that’s what separates the hypocrical GOP from the Dems. When news of William Jefferson’s alleged bribery scandal broke the party leadership and most liberal talk show folks quickly condemed him and asked for his resgination.

    Guess what, Jefferson is still serving and voting in Congress. And let’s not forget Rep. Mel Reynolds of Illinois, Democrat. He was having sex with 16 year old schoolgirls, was caught, sentenced to prison. And guess who commuted his sentence before leaving office. None other than pervert-in-chief Billy Boy Clinton. And then Jesse Jackson, Democrat, hired Reynolds as a youth counselor. That says it all about this doesnt it?

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  94. bud

    Since Mr. Jefferson is still serving why doesn’t the congressional leadership move for expulsion? Oh that’s right, congress is controlled by Republican’s, a group that wouldn’t understand the meaning of the word ethics.
    As for Mr. Reynolds. You have to go back a long way to find someone as tawdry as Mr. Foley or the dozen or so GOP scum caught up in the Abramoff mess. And this Foley story isn’t done yet. House Speaker Hastert appears to be involved to some extent. New details are surfacing that a coverup may be involved.

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  95. Lee

    You can go all the way back to the early 1800s and find a string of tawdry, corrupt Democrats, and especilly since Woodrow Wilson and the new flower power Democrats.

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  96. bud

    Flower power Democrats? That describes me! And I’m darned proud of it. Of course I take issue with the tawdry part.

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  97. bud

    Even Joe Scarborough is turning against the GOP:
    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15106507/
    If this doesn’t sink them on November 7 I don’t know what will. Allowing someone like Foley to lead the charge to protect young people internet predators is simply beyond the pale. Hastert should resign next. The GOP has simply become a total disgrace. Sorry Brad, but your whole un-party philosophy makes no sense when one party is so much worse, both ethically and on the issues, than the other. It’s a matter of saving the country by voting out the GOP.

    Reply
  98. LexWolf

    “Since Mr. Jefferson is still serving why doesn’t the congressional leadership move for expulsion? ”
    The Dem leadership would have done this a long time ago on its own if they had any ethical principles besides protecting their own. No need for congressional leadership to do it.
    But maybe they should do just that. It would seem to be a win-win situation. My guess is that the Dems would go ballistic and thus once again protect one of their own as they have always done before. Or if they vote against Jefferson we’d be rid of him.
    Going forward, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a Dem or two outed for their misfeasances or malfeasances before November.

    Reply
  99. Randy Ewart

    Lex has yet to condemn Foley. This, of course, reflects the bias of his posts.
    He’s your boy Lex, keep fighting for him!

    Reply
  100. Randy Ewart

    Wasn’t it the Speaker himself who was siding with Ice Box Jefferson’s when the Feds searched his office?

    Reply
  101. Dave

    It’s sort of comical but sickening to watch the Democrats, the party of tolerance and acceptance toward gays, turn with such anger on a gay Congressman. I think the FBI will find that some Dem party leaders sat on the knowledge of the chat messages (which some are 3 years old) to time the exposing of them right before the election. Wait and see who the real childhating criminals are in all of this.

    Reply
  102. bud

    Dave, you really shouldn’t listen to Sean Hannity so much. That “sat on it for 3 years” accusation is nonsensical on it’s face. Where’s the evidence? But aside from any lack of evidence it makes no sense. If some Dem had this information for 3 years that would put this episode well before the 2004 election. Why not use it then? Dave, you and Lex should condemn Mr. Foley first and foremost. Then you can spin this to suit your agenda. Everyone on the left on this blog has consistently condemed Mr. Jefferson. We’re consistent on matters of ethics. This whole sordid episode shows just how far the GOP has sunk. It should cost them dearly on November 7.

    Reply
  103. Lee

    We had a Democrat coverup of the Clinton crimes when all of their Senators refused to enter the evidence room and view the evidence prior to voting to acquit him in his impeachment trial.
    These are the same Senators who earlier had gone to the White House and asked Clinton to resign. Gore was so sure of impeachment that he met with over 400 candidates for his replacement administration.

    Reply
  104. LexWolf

    “I’m not protecting Foley in any way, but simply pointing out the facts. It’s good that he did the right thing and resigned – good riddance. ”
    Posted by: LexWolf | Oct 1, 2006 8:57:54 PM
    I have no sympathy with people like Foley but let’s face it: with the sordid history of the lefties in this department, you guys are the last ones qualified to point fingers!
    Consider this helpful summary from Gateway Pundit when deciding which party has demonstrated a greater concern for protecting the young people who work in the Capitol:
    Representative Foley did not have sex with the minor, did not have sex with the young man in the Oval office, did not put him in a high level security position he was not qualified to handle after a major terrorist attack on the country, was not married at the time, did not run a prostitution ring from his apartment, did not turn his back on Congress when he was accused of having sex with a minor, did not run and get re-elected several times in a Democratic stronghold after this news broke, Representative Foley no longer sits in Congress, and the page did not disappear and end up dead after an ongoing relationship with Representative Foley…

    Reply
  105. Lee

    I don’t think anyone disagrees that the only program the Democratic Party has for removal of scum is for the US Marshals to pick them up.

    Reply
  106. bud

    According to Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington 21 of the 25 most corrupt members of congress are Republicans.
    http://www.beyonddelay.org/
    We haven’t seen the last of this Foley episode. If I were a neocon I’d change the subject. Ethics is a losing issue for the GOP this year. Then again, so is just about every other issue.

    Reply
  107. Lee

    bud shifts from facts about Democrats in court and prison to the opinion of a Democrat website that there are more corrupt Republicans.
    Politics attracts sleazy people.

    Reply
  108. Randy Ewart

    It’s sort of comical but sickening to watch the Democrats, the party of tolerance and acceptance toward gays, turn with such anger on a gay Congressman. – Dave
    just a gay congressman? Do you really want to characterize him that way?

    Reply
  109. Lee

    If the GOP leadership had tried to discipline Foley earlier, the Democrats would have defended Foley like they did Barney Frank, and accuse the GOP of “gay bashing” and “homophobia”.
    Just remember that 99% of what Democrats say is an insincere act, and don’t take them seriously.
    If the GOP leadership knew earlier, you can bet the Democrats knew, and were holding this blackmail card for some later play.

    Reply
  110. Dave

    Randy, Foley admits he is gay but hasnt admitted or been convicted of pedophilia. Is exchanging chat messages that are kinky pedophilia. I dont know.

    In a master stroke, Hastert is appointing Barney Frank to lead the house investigation on Foley. Barney’s first statement on this incident. “It is with pwofwound wegwet that we find Wepwesentative Foley in this thichuation. Twust me, we will get to the twuth of this matter.”

    Reply
  111. Randy Ewart

    I was wrong before to label it pedophilia. My point is that he was targeting minors. In of itself, that is sick. For a congressman to do this is atrocious.
    To compound the problem, there was clearly a break down within the republican leadership when the emails were first reported. Boehner, a pub, threw Hastert under the bus today stating that he let Hastert know about the emails months ago.
    The emails themselves are damning for the pub leadership. Why was Foley directed not to contact the pages any more if these were simple emails?
    I find it sad that bloggers on here are willing to sling mud when faced with this atrocious situation. One pub blogger’s initial response was to post an article about how the age of consent is 16, no crime was committed… Another’s first response was to bring up Democrat problems and state that “Foley did the honorable thing and resign”. Where is the outrage from the pub bloggers?
    By attempting to minimize this issue or defend Foley in the slightest makes it not an isolated event, but adds to the “culture of corruption” image. If republicans came out immediately with outrage and condemnation, BEFORE testing the political wind, I think we’d see this as more of an individual issue.

    Reply
  112. Dave

    Randy, when what Foley did with the chat messages was exposed, Republicans did react with outrage immediately. Foley did show some sense of honor by immediately resigning. I was contrasting that to others in government who have done much much worse and still proudly serve. So let’s not try to now paint the Republicans as the party of corrupt child abusers. That is ridiculous. Also ridiculous is the witchhunt directed at the GOP leadership. If every leader of every party had to resign each time a member was discovered doing something immoral, would there be any leaders in either party? Rep. Jefferson of LA took bribes and still serves and votes. Do we want Pelosi to resign now? Silly.

    Reply
  113. bud

    Funny how Jefforson’s name keeps coming up. It was Hastert, yes Hastert who kept defending him on the grounds that the House of Representatives’ offices are somehow off limits to investigation by the FBI. I never did follow that logic.
    Foley hardly showed any honor here. He was caught and knew the jig was up. He’s just trying to save his sorry backside. Hastert was trying hard to keep this quiet until after the election. The so-called party of “family value” is coming unglued. Good riddance to the whole sorry bunch.

    Reply
  114. Lee

    Life is so easy for the Party of No Values – Democrats.
    Bad Republicans pay the price because their base cares about morality.

    Reply
  115. Dave

    This is comical. Here we have the Dem party who supported allowing gays to be scoutmasters. Then we have Bill Clinton who had phone sex with Monica on 15 occasions. Phone sex by a 50 year old guy with a 19 year old teenager. And what did the Dems say, Oh, this is a private matter. Phone sex back then was the equal of chat today. Yes, Dems, you have to live with the Clinton legacy forever.

    Reply
  116. bud

    This is just priceless. Watching the right squirm on this Foley fiasco is just too funny. Limbaugh is now comparing Foley to the Pope. Hannity suggested some Democrat kept this a secret for 3 years in order to use it as political fodder in the 2006 election. (Skipping the 2004 election was not explained). Every rightwing nutcase out there is bringing up the Clinton/Lewinsky incident. I guess that is the neocon’s security blanket. When all else fails, no matter what, blame Clinton.
    But there is some good news for the GOP about this sordid incident. The awful news concerning Iraq, Afghanistan and North Korea is no longer headline news.

    Reply
  117. Lee

    “The Right” is who is calling for Foley to resign, along with Barney Frank and Rep. Stubbs.
    “The Left” defends perverts, and fights to keep Barney Frank, Stubbs, Jefferson, Clinton and others in office.

    Reply
  118. Randy Ewart

    Dave, please. You are still trying to favorably compare what Foley did with Clinton and others? He was hitting on MINORS who were in the care of CONGRESS!
    What Clinton did was dispicable, but it was with a consenting ADULT. How hypocritical of you to use contrast his age with Lewinsky when the difference is greater in the Foley case and it’s with a MINOR!
    I think your cavalier attitude regarding this matter, along with the Republican leadership’s, demonstrates the problem. No one on here has implied that the GOP the party of “corrupt child abusers”. You simply seem more concerned about your party than the atrocities of Foley.
    Where’s your outrage about his acts? How can you not hold the leadership unaccountable?

    Reply
  119. Liberace

    Randy, The Democrats have no concern for whether these pages were sexually harassed. They have already forgotten about Foley, they want the GOP leadership. Again, these are the people who ignored Clinton’s hands on sexual abuse of an intern, a suborbinate female on government property. Remember when they said it was only about sex, a private matter? The GOP throws out their trash, as they did with Foley, and the democrats honor and preserve their trash. Further, when I hear about a gay hitting on a young boy, how can I be outraged. It happens all the time, but the democrats are the people who are in denial about it. You know these are the people who sided against the Boy Scouts when the scouts said they could not tolerate gay scoutmasters. As for Foley, if I could set the law of the land, after he came out of his vacationlike rehab, his first punishment would be a public caning in front of the Washington Monument. A good public beating in front of the nation’s largest phallic symbol, fitting. I havent figured out the second punishment yet. You want outrage, there it is.

    Reply
  120. Randy Ewart

    Yes the Democrats are using this to their political advantage. I hate that. But I detest the hitting on a MINOR far more. Dismissing this as a frequent occurence is surrendering one’s morals. If you want to do so, fine. I guess you feel the same way about murder seeing how it happens all the time. I, for one, am keeping my morals and authentic outrage.

    Reply
  121. LexWolf

    And so Foleymas fizzles out as well:
    a href=http://www.drudgereport.com/flashmfa.htm>FAMOUS IM EXCHANGE WAS WITH 18-YEAR-OLD
    You guys really need to do better with those ‘scandals’ – the last two didn’t last more than 5 days.

    Reply
  122. LexWolf

    And so Foleymas fizzles out as well:
    a href=http://www.drudgereport.com/flashmfa.htm>FAMOUS IM EXCHANGE WAS WITH> 18-YEAR-OLD
    You guys really need to do better with those ‘scandals’ – the last two didn’t last more than 5 days.

    Reply
  123. LexWolf

    And so Foleymas fizzles out as well:
    FAMOUS IM EXCHANGE WAS WITH 18-YEAR-OLD
    You guys really need to do better with those ‘scandals’ – the last two didn’t last more than 5 days.

    Reply
  124. LexWolf

    Sorry for the repeat posts – guess I should use Preview more often. Brad, please delete the first 2, if you feel like it.

    Reply
  125. Lee

    Dems avoid the subject of Democrats caught molesting MINOR age pages, because they don’t want to remove their perverts from office.

    Reply
  126. Lee

    We are the ones calling for Foley to resign…
    … along with anyone who helped cover it up
    … along with anyone who used the information for blackmail
    … along with Barney Frank, Stubbs, Jefferson, and other Democrats caught in prositution, sex with pages, and bribery.
    Democrats are the ones defending prositution, sex with pages, and bribery.

    Reply
  127. bud

    Lee, the virtue of the GOP is touching. Would you want your teenage son paging for a Republican Congressman? Sitting on IMs and e-mails for months, even years, without taking action. This on top of the many other sleazy episodes over the past couple of years. This was the party that was elected, in part, to clean up the ethical lapses of the Democrats. That’s really worked out hasn’t it? It’s been one big orgy of scandals lately. From Jack Abramoff to Mr. Macaca, Duke Cunningham, Mark Foley, Tom Delay, etc., etc. The worst of all is Hastert sitting on what was clearly a red flag and failing to take action. Only when caught red-handed did the politically scared Hastert do anything.
    This is not about past episodes of indiscretion by members of congress. This is about the current congress and the current leadership of that congress. What we have is an ethical meltdown of epic proportions. The GOP in 2006 is a truly sorry bunch.

    Reply
  128. Lee

    I wouldn’t want teenager to be paging for any Congressman, Senator or State Representative. I want to to have real jobs, getting their hands dirty and seeing how taxpayers have to work to support the corrupt welfare state.
    Barney Frank is a present scandal.
    So is Jefferson, and so is Studds.
    Democrats have no ethics to meltdown.
    That is why they are engaged in such gay-bashing before the election.

    Reply
  129. Randy Ewart

    Dems are picking on Foley because he’s gay? Lee, you said Dems are pushing to legalize child molestation. They should be big supporters of Foley.
    I guess you forgot you made up that charge. All those tales are hard to inventory, eh?
    Fuzzy math and fuzzy thinking.

    Reply
  130. Dave

    Bud, would you let your teenage son page for Barney Frank? Both parties have a few sexual deviates. Politicizing the Foley episode is now actually costing Dem candidates in the polls. The American public realizes this is one guy with severe problems and Pelosi and company trying to leverage it against all GOP leadership is seen as the cynical pathetic desperate ploy that it is. I only hope the Dems keep it up. Pelosi’s efforts may ensure the GOP keeps Congress.

    Reply
  131. Randy Ewart

    That’s a tremendous misanalysis Dave. You are suggesting that Dems taking advantage is worse than Pubs turning a blind eye to a congressman hitting on MINORS!? Sex and money scandals are a dime a dozen and many voters are almost shrug it off. But this is different. That’s clear because it’s the conservatives who are the most upset and looking to kick butt.
    I coninue to be amazed at your greater concern for the politics than for the atrocity of Foley’s actions and the pathetic response of the Pub leadership structure. It has been made abundantly clear that his misdeeds were widely known. Your Christian values should have kicked in by now as it has with the conservatives. Are you such a loyalist that you cherish the party more than values?

    Reply
  132. Dave

    Randy, Dem operatives had possession of the emails and chat messages long before Friday a week ago when Hastert first learned about it. The Dems sat on the data to time the announcement so Florida ballots could not be reprinted. This will all come out in the current investigation. It sure is funny to watch Dems gaybashing, the Dems, the part of tolerance. haha. Bob Beckel, a major Dem strategist, said on TV the other night that letting a gay guy near a young page boy is like letting Willie Sutton hang around banks. I think that is an offense to every decent gay person in America. Do you?

    Reply
  133. Lee

    Bob Beckel, a major Dem strategist, said on TV the other night that letting a gay guy near a young page boy is like ….letting Slick Willie near a female intern.

    Reply
  134. bud

    Dave and Lee. You 2 make lots of claims but don’t back any of it up. Lee, show me where Nancy Peloci supports NAMBLA. That’s complete nonsense. Dave, what polls are you looking at? By huge margins the American people believe the leadership of the party of “family values” knew about Foley’s behavior months ago and did nothing. I doubt this is helping thier cause.
    But the most ridiculous claim is that some Dem operative, no name ever given, sat on this information for years only releasing it a month before the election. Sean, Rush and others in the right-wing spin chamber have made this claim. I’ve yet to hear one scintilla of proof. Like the Abramoff affair before it this is strictly a GOP scandal.

    Reply
  135. Dave

    Bud, you keep going on and on about Foley. Foley who? The GOP leadership flushed him. However, Barney Frank still serves and proudly so. Why wasn’t he forced to resign? He knowingly had a male prostitute ring running out of his DC home. How can you defend that? And wasn’t Bill’s phone sex with Monica equivalent to what Foley did? All I want from you Bud is some reasonability.

    Reply
  136. Randy Ewart

    Dave continues to defend a 50 year old congressman who hit on MINORS. Nice “reasonability” there.
    Comparing Clinton having phone sex with a 22 year old with Foley sending MINORS those emails is like comparing a thunderstorm with Katrina.
    Let’s not let morality interfere with toeing the party line.

    Reply
  137. Lee

    Bill Clinton’s big problem began with trying to buy off Monica when he dumped her, after abusing his authority over her:
    * appointed Monica to a pie job at the State Department, where she bumped into Vince Foster’s former secretary.
    * cooked up a swanky New York City job for Monica with some of his financial backers, if she would just catch a case of Arkansas Amnesia.
    * threatened Betty Currie into changing her testimony

    Reply
  138. Lee

    The San Francisco Chronicle was a primary sponsor of the 2001 Gay Pride March, and its coverage includes photos and naming of the celebrity marchers. Nancy Pelosi was Number 34, walking along with Harry Hay, communist and unabashed advocate of decriminalizing pedophilia, and a founder of several radical homosexual groups, including NAMBLA.
    You Democrats in denial can get a librarian to look it up for you.

    Reply
  139. bud

    You’re right Dave, it’s time to move on from the Foley scandal. Let’s talk about what’s really important, trust. The GOP has lost it. Lying us into war. Money laundering, accepting bribes, covering up for pedophiles, exposing undercover CIA agents. The list goes on and on. The GOP has lost the American trust. Only Diebold can save them now.

    Reply
  140. Dave

    Bud,
    Lying us into war – LBJ
    Money laundering – Clinton Admin and Red Commie Chinese
    Bribes – Jefferson et. al.
    Pedophiles – Studds
    CIA – Leaky Leahy, Democrat Armitage
    Moral disgrace – Wilbur Mills and Fanne Fox, Gary Hart and secretary, cast of hundreds of Dems
    Stamp stealing – Rostenkowski
    Investment Fraud – Hillary and Tyson Foods attorney
    Bank Fraud – Bert Lance

    Diebold, on the other hand, is a totally srupulous and honest corporation, so the Dems attack it.

    Reply
  141. Randy Ewart

    In addition to Foley and the GOP cover up:
    Abramoff – big freaking web of republicans
    K-Street Project – woven into the cloth of the GOP
    Delay indicted
    Frist facing investigations
    Bob Ney admits to kickbacks
    Gov Taft indicted
    Cunningham guilty
    Reporters paid for Bush propoganda
    WMD/Sadamn-AQ ruse
    Libby’s “memory loss”
    I’m sure I’m leaving someone out

    Reply
  142. Dave

    Abramoff gave one third of his funny money to Democrats. As I said before, both parties have had their problems. One of the main reasons these problems happen is due to the government involvement in programs and areas where constitutionally it has no business being involved. This past Friday, little McBee, SC was awarded $600,000 by Congressman Spratt for a new medical clinic. McBee has a population of about 1500 people. It’s election time and pork is flying all over the land.

    Reply
  143. Randy Ewart

    Don’t forget the bridge to no where.
    This is why I like McCain. He’s the only national elected official who I have seen publicly take others to task for the pork (unless it involved pig feces).

    Reply
  144. bud

    Dave, have you ever been to Mcbee? It’s about a billion miles from anywhere. A small medical clinic would be a very useful addition to a small, rural area. Perhaps not as cost efficient as a large hospital in a big city, but certainly something that would ease the burden of the folks in that area. Yet again conservatives miss the point. It’s not always about cost efficiency. Sometimes you have to think about the welfare of the people.

    Reply
  145. Dave

    Bud, doctors make lots of money. Let the free market serve McBee, not pork tax money. At that rate, why not a government funded med. clinic in every postoffice zone in SC. And I would bet on something else, with McBee as rural as it is, they will have a high level of use by illegal farm workers. That is where the demand comes from. Nice, huh?

    Reply
  146. Randy Ewart

    with McBee as rural as it is, they will have a high level of use by illegal farm workers. That is where the demand comes from. Nice, huh? – Dave
    Hmmm, why would these workers want to live in McBee without AMERICANS giving them jobs – providing a service for AMERICANS.
    Dave are you suggesting the citizens in McBee don’t need such care? Please cite the data for all this posturing.

    Reply
  147. Lee

    Illegal aliens aren’t citizens.
    The fact that employers break the law by employing illegal aliens who are subsidized with $40 BILLION of welfare a year is not exactly a good argument for even more subsidy spending, Randy.

    Reply
  148. Lee

    ATLANTA – Hispanic births are skyrocketing in the Southeast, where an increase of at least 40 percent was recorded in five states between 2000 and 2003, according to a new government report.
    Among the states with the largest increases were Kentucky (80 percent), South Carolina (62 percent), Alabama (53 percent), Tennessee (53 percent) and Arkansas (40 percent), the report found.
    Fewer than 3% of them have any health insurance. The vast majority of medical bills for delivery and care of these babies is absorbed by the hospitals and doctors not being paid, and by welfare.

    Reply
  149. Dave

    Randy, in 98 SC had 36,000 Hispanics, now we have 136,000. Not many of them are legal immigrants. that is a fact jack.

    Reply
  150. Lee

    We get your drift, Randy.
    You don’t care about the criminal invasion of America from Mexico. Like many leftists who hate America, it may actually please you.
    At any rate, you are unable to defend it with any adult argument, so your retorts degenerate into Spanish graffiti.

    Reply
  151. Lee

    Translation: Randy is unable to bluntly state his position on illegal aliens, much less argue it.
    But he will be able to get a job as a landscaper.

    Reply
  152. Randy Ewart

    Es posible que yo hace un trabajo como un fire captain, o un engineer, o un economist o un fingerprint technician, o un weapons instructor.

    Reply
  153. Lee

    That’s right – Nancy Pelosi marched in a parade alongside advocates of legalizing what are now statutory rape and pedophile crimes.
    That dialect of Spanish is that? Jonestown?

    Reply
  154. Randy Ewart

    Dave, that’s lame. How can you reconcile your faith AND defend possible statutory rape?
    You keep dodging that question.

    Reply
  155. Lee

    Maybe you’re just projecting your defense of rapists Clinton and Kennedy, and the Mexican trade in child prostitutes.

    Reply
  156. Dave

    Randy, Once and for all, I have never and will never defend the gay congressgirleyman from Florida. So now emails and chat messages to you are statutory rape? What about Gary Condit who is a documented serial woman abuser? But he doesn’t hold a candle to Clinton, who started when he was a governor (before that for sure) and took his Arkansas white trash actions right into the oval office. By the way, you have heard that Mark Warner, that promising young Dem from Virginia, has dropped out of the race. Guess why, his extra marital affairs have been found out. Another immoral Democrat bites the dust. Is there no end to the immorality? I have to give him some credit, he was man enough to quit now. Clinton on the other hand denied denied denied, and lied about it, and if Monica hadnt saved the pervert’s DNA, he would still be lying about it.

    Reply
  157. Randy Ewart

    About time Dave. Sad that you still want to minimize what he’s done. Statutory rape was obviously possible, unless you think Foley was not trolling for a possible interlude.
    Extra-marital affairs are NOT illegal. Denying to the public is not illegal. Hitting on MINORS is ILLEGAL.
    Why is it your defense of every republican, dirtbags and all, involves Clinton? Why are you so obsessed with him?
    My whole point is the CURRENT situation, the CoC AND the dirt bag democrats. Your whole point seems to be a blind defense of any republican.

    Reply
  158. Lee

    Clinton was the boss, in a position of great authority, having a sleazy relationship with the lowest level employee. Then he arranged a series of bribes to shut her up.
    In any corporation, that behavior will get you fired. The O.J. Democrats in the Senate kept Clinton in office, but he had to cop a plea agreement and pay over $900,000 in fines to avoid prosecution.

    Reply
  159. Dave

    Randy, from FBI investigations, it appears Foley had no physical contact with underage males. He helped write the laws making contact with kids under 18 a felony. So the scumbag was clever enough to stay out of felony trouble. But you have to give credit to the GOP leadership for forcing him out. Why cant the Dems force out their bad apples?

    Reply

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