Why I’m not worked up about ACORN

You may have gathered from this post that poking around into the doings of ACORN isn’t exactly a high priority of mine. Anyone who looked at what I have to do over the next few weeks would certainly understand that, regardless of his point of view. But it extends beyond that.

The ACORN stuff is just the kind of spin-cycle junk that does not interest me. Does that mean I don’t think voter fraud is a serious matter. No, of course not. It’s just that I don’t see it as that big a factor. Nor do I agree with this writer, who holds the precise opposite point of view of those who are worked up over ACORN:

By George Curry
The Philadelphia Inquirer
    There have been some blatant and indefensible voter-registration violations committed by people acting on behalf of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). But the greater threat to preserving the integrity of the ballot box on Nov. 4 is voter suppression.

You see, liberal Democrats and their ideological fellow-travelers get extremely indignant over the idea that somewhere there’s somebody who’s legally (or at least, in their view, morally) entitled to vote and yet will not be allowed to. Conservative Republicans and their fellow-travelers get just as indignant over the idea that somewhere there’s somebody voting who either legally or morally should not be.

And you know what I think? I think humans, and the systems they devise, are imperfect. I think that in any national election, there are going to be a certain number of people (or imaginary people) voting who shouldn’t, and a certain number who are entitled who won’t be allowed to. But I think that with the two groups of people who are worked up about those two problems being all over it, and with a system that tries in good faith to avoid either problem, those two categories will be kept to a minimum, ohne mich. And overall, the competing effects will be something close to a wash.

You want something to worry about? Consider this: Neither problem will involve nearly as many people as the number who are entitled to vote who won’t bother, or the number who WILL vote who are clueless about who or what they’re voting for. It’s an imperfect world, and therefore a fundamentally flawed system for choosing our leaders. It’s just the best we’ve been able to devise so far.

Back to ACORN — yes, I understand that some people think the ACORN scandals provide a window into the character of one of the men running for president. I just don’t find that narrative all that persuasive. I find the Ayers and Wright connections much more relevant, and I don’t even consider those to be central — just relevant, something to take into consideration.

Anyway, that’s my view on the matter. What’s yours?

81 thoughts on “Why I’m not worked up about ACORN

  1. Dave

    in a narrow world view I see how you came to that conclusion, but I would offer several points.
    Voter Fraud is against the law, saying there is a little on both sides so it becomes a wash is hardly a good answer.
    in a broader world view, ACORN must be recognized for what it was created for and what it’s action now prove to be true, it is a far left wing socialist attmept to thwart elections for the purpose of promoting minority over majority. It has been used at local levels and now in another presidentital election, all with the same intent, to win, at any cost, the elections,,,, If this was a republican organization, intellectual such as yourself would be going bonkers!

  2. bud

    Brad, this is pretty lame. Here’s what I think.
    1. The ACORN business is inconsequential.
    2. The GOP disenfranchisement is significant and could, as it has done twice, decide the election. This is not even close to a wash.
    3. The fact that many people don’t vote just makes it THAT much more important that those who want to vote are allowed to, provided of course they’re eligible. This is pretty fundamental to the process.
    4. I’m not a big disciple of the those who want to browbeat people into voting so non-voting BY CHOICE is not important to me.
    5. The Ayers and Wright stuff are completely unimportant.
    6. The Keating 5/Agee stuff is not very important but perhaps sheds a tiny bit of light on the character of McCain, namely he’s not much of a maverick.

  3. p.m.

    “The ACORN stuff is just the kind of spin-cycle junk that does not interest me.”
    I hate to ask, Brad, but why does it not interest you that an organization is using millions of our tax dollars to accomplish voter fraud?
    It’s OK with you that ACORN is diluting the value of your vote?
    Someone trying to hijack an American election suits you just fine?
    Two hundred thousand suspect voter registrations in Ohio, with the U.S. Supreme Court saying that’s OK, and you’re not concerned?
    I’m sorry you have it so tough you don’t have time to think about it. I know the added burden of having to endorse a candidate for president will have you working virtually around the clock for the next couple of weeks, even if such drudgery could be accompolished in no more than an hour or two in most editorial departments.

  4. Brad Warthen

    Folks, Dave’s belief that I should be more concerned about ACORN, and bud’s that I should be more concerned about disenfranchisement, both fit perfectly into the analysis I just provided.
    Can anyone see that?
    And Dave, my view isn’t the “narrow” view, but the broad one. Argue that it’s TOO broad, and I should worry more about these details, but it’s certainly not the narrow view.

  5. p.m.

    Bud, you are the most biased individual whose writings I have read.
    Your predispositions color each and every word you write.
    Is being a Democrat sock puppet pleasurable?

  6. Dave

    Brad, no disrespect intended, I meant “narrow” as looking at this election cycle only. The “broad” aspect referred to the cycle of american politics and how one side seeks to change, through any means, to gain power even if it takes decades.
    As for the point of your article, I understand what you were trying to point out, I just think that casting a dismissive wave at something so serious, you may find yourself in the minority. We, the people, do care when people cheat at elections,,,,

  7. Dino

    Brad, it may interest you to know that pyramid schemes (old) and carousel fraud (new) are far from the worst frauds. Even the giant Enron debacle, which cheated thousands of employees, is not as bad as the only fraud capable of cheating hundreds of millions of Americans -organized voting fraud.
    Organized voting fraud has never been prosecuted under Racketeering Influence and Corrupt Organization laws. In fact, it is mostly downplayed as isolated misdemeanors. Where a felony, it is in fact a white-collar crime (relatively mild penalties).
    From New York, Miami and Chicago in 2006 (source: GANNETT NEWS SERVICE):
    – Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where the higher population produced more matches. source
    In 1997, a judge declared a Miami mayoral election invalid because of widespread fraud, including dead voters. [ibid]
    And in one of the more notorious examples, inspectors estimated that as many as 1 in 10 ballots cast in Chicago during the 1982 Illinois gubernatorial election were fraudulent for various reasons, including votes by the dead. [ibid]
    In the 1960 presidential election, Chicago provided the winning votes for Kennedy. “Old Joe”, as JFK’s father was called, stated that he didn’t mind spending his money for votes, but he didn’t want to pay for a landslide. There was enough proof of fraud that Nixon’s supporters urged him to contest the election. Nixon, more concerned for the stability of the country than Al Gore later, declined, saying that he didn’t want to put the country through that process.
    No offense, Brad, but if you are not worried perhaps you should be writing for Mad Magazine.
    Full Disclosure: I am an independent voter with no political party ties. I tend not to vote for lawyers of either party, as there is hardly much difference.

  8. Dave

    What does it say when the arbiters of “NEWS” put in writing that they are not concerned about,,,,, the NEWS,,,,
    At the very least it reeks of partisanship,,, certainly not objective reproting.

  9. Lee Muller

    Massive voter fraud by Democrats is real.
    Millions of cases have occurred since 1980.
    “Disenfranchisement by Republicans” is imaginary, rare, and mere propaganda by Democrats.
    Brad Warthen is not concerned about ACORN stealing the election for the same reason he doesn’t care about illegal immigrants stealing jobs, welfare, and other public services – he would rather let the riff-raff steal America than confront corruption, especially when he fears it is so massive that he, the almight journalist, might be powerless to stop it.
    Like many in the media, he dodges confrontation with real issues, in order to magnify and conjur up non-issues, like the Confederate flag, or someone smoking in a bar where it is okay with the proprietor and 95% of the other patrons.

  10. Dave

    Well put Lee!
    Once you understand that “The State” paper is nothing more than a forum for McClatchey News talking points you realize it is not about news at all. It is about media saturation and how a small minority can seem like the majority.

  11. HP

    Mr. Lee Muller,
    You seem to know a lot of things. Here is what we want to know: What would it take for you to give someone like Barack Obama a chance? Even if you don’t vote for him?

  12. Dave

    well becks, I think 200,000 illegally registered voters in 1 state is “fruit”. The reall problem is that you are simply wasint time discussing it. You do not care if they are cheating or not so long as your candidate wins. That’s probably about the best definition of democrat there is…

  13. bud

    Oh cry me a river. Boo Hoo! Mean ole ACORN is having success registering new Democratic voters. BOO HOO. This is actually quite funny. The GOP has been the scumiest worst bunch of election stealers ever. And now that they’re losing all we get is this phony outrage. It’s just an attempt to try and steal another election. Well it gonna happen this time. The dems are on to the GOP vote stealing mania of the past 8 years. Get over it.

  14. bud

    In the 1960 presidential election, Chicago provided the winning votes for Kennedy.
    False. Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

  15. HP

    It is sad if these ACORN groups feel they have to hedge their bets and cheat. Maybe they have had the rug pulled out from under them so many times that they feel they have to resort to this kind of thing.
    Not that that’s an excuse. But it’s a more understandable motivation.

  16. bud

    This just in. Apparently the Democrats persuaded the high court that allowing voters the opportunity to vote supercedes the GOP’s belief that they are somehow entitled to own the White House. Sometimes justice does prevail. Excerpt from USA Today:
    High court rejects GOP bid in Ohio voting dispute
    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court sided Friday with Ohio’s top elections official in a dispute with the state Republican Party over voter registrations.
    The justices overruled a federal appeals court that had ordered Ohio’s top elections official to do more to help counties verify voter eligibility.

  17. just saying

    “Bud, you are the most biased individual whose writings I have read.”
    (I assume you mean on this Blog…) Do you really think he’s more biased than Lee? They both strike me as being, well, out there.

  18. Lee Muller

    No one should be allowed to register to vote any later than 30 days before an election, in order to have time to verify their identity, domicile, and that they have no other registrations in other states.
    ACORN and the ACLU sued and got the courts to permit same-day registration, which is the same as showing up to vote without registration. It is intended to encourage fraudulent voting for Democrats.
    Socialists are thieves. Their credo is to rob money from those who created wealth. So why would anyone expect them to not steal the elections? Their ultimate goal is abolish elections.

  19. just saying

    Same day registration strikes me as a bad idea too. (Is it still just the handful of states that have decided to go with it?)
    Wouldn’t a secure national id card (if such a thing could be developed) allow for quicker verification, both for voting (and for immigration issues)?

  20. haskell

    HP 12:04. David Broder gets full marks for his remarks on the editorial page today. He caught the essence of Barack Obama. “Having broken his word on public financing…[Obama] has looked consistently self-assured. And assurance is a valuable commodity in times like these.” Style over substance drives the media. Ever see ugly talking heads on the TV?
    ACORN?? Do you not realize that 20 billion dollars was earmarked for ACORN and its congeners in the original Bailout Bill put forward by the Democrats? Cash for Cronies. Look at the track record of Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines. Give Obama a chance? Do you know that Obama wrecked the initial negotiations in the Oval Office about the Bailout Bill with his partisan attacks on the Bush administration? Just like Nancy Pelosi torpedoed the Bill in the first run through the House. Do you think that they may benefit from the financial crisis? Obama has a lot of baggage, with Wright, Ayres, and the Chicago political machine. Look at his legislative record. Uh, what record? Give him a chance? Roll the dice on the presidency? Who are you people? McCain is no superstar, but he is a known quantity with a record of accomplishment and decency.

  21. HP

    How “decent” was he to his 1st wife? Paying her medical bills for life. How magnanimous.
    His impulsive decisions get the best of him:
    1. Grab up Sarah Palin for veep.
    2. ‘Suspend’ campaign/eat out with Joe.
    3. Dis David Letterman; go crawling back.
    4. Pick out his wife’s clothes.

  22. bud

    Wait a minute “just saying”. I admit to being a Democrat who finds Barack Obama a very appealing and level-headed candidate for POTUS. And I’ve been highly critical of John McCain. But I don’t consider mayself “way out there”. I acknowledge McCain’s service to his country, his patriotism and that he’s general a pretty good guy. And I greatly admired him in 2000. But I am very disappointed in the way he’s conducted this year’s campaign. Unlike Brad, I see a very different and partisan McCain this time around. Still, I don’t think any of that qualifies me as “way out there”.

  23. Capital A

    “McCain is no superstar, but he is a known quantity with a record of accomplishment and decency.”
    Posted by: haskell | Oct 17, 2008 1:01:14 PM
    Since when is calling your wife a c–t in pub(l)ic the hallmark of decency?
    In telling that fib, you live up to your TV Land character’s namesake. You also conveniently forget that McCain is half-a-breath(less) away from starring in the next George A. Romero film.
    “We don’t want those national ID cards. Because from those things is where the mark of the beast stuff is going to come. So I heard.”
    Posted by: Anon. | Oct 17, 2008 1:02:26 PM
    Please don’t stir up Herb who will regale us on the virtues of those 5000 year old, Jewish fairytales. We have our hands full here with the likes of insaneLee and p.(re)m.(enstrual).
    An investigation into ACORN only will augment the millions in taxpayer money already wasted on this issue. If ACORN was half as terrible and effective as it is made out to be, then the voting results and margin of Bush Baby’s victories in 2004 and 2008 belie a stupidity and/or ignorance in the American voting public that runs deeper than I had previously considered.
    Shame on us as the past eight years have been our comeuppance for the mistake we made not once, but twice. I have prayed for a positive change for our country every night since Bush Baby first took office.
    Come November 4, let’s see how much merit THAT brand of beseeching truly has. No matter the outcome of the election and like Huck Finn when he humbled himself for the pointless practice, I suspect I’ll get a fishing line, but no fish hooks to go with it.

  24. Dave

    Capital A is clealy an hatist from the left. Notice he/she is the first to start with to start with the personal attacks and vulgar lanquage. Bud must’ve called in some help from ACORN

  25. Lee Muller

    What would it take for me to give Obama a chance?
    1. Stop associating with those communists, radical Afro-centrists and other racists, and sympathizers of Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda
    2. Stay in the Senate and don’t vote for any deficit spending, no more tax increases, and don’t stand in the way of drilling for oil. Don’t vote for any earmarks, gun control, or regulations on small business.
    3. Work to phase out Social Security in 5 years. Reduce Medicare to its original target size, 1/10 what it is now.
    4. Leave the Senate, get a real job in the private sector, not as a lobbyist. Try to start is own business, even with all his connections, expand it, meet a payroll, deal with 40,000 pages of IRS and OSHA regulations. Get some real world experience.
    5. Join the Army Reserves or National Guard, so he learns something about why we must fight Islamofascism.
    6. Then come back and run on your record, instead of a stealth campaign that only smears all your opponents.

  26. just saying

    “Still, I don’t think any of that qualifies me as “way out there”.
    I guess its just that several of your more recent posts seem to look that way as kind of mirror images to the ones on the right (even to me, who has voted a lot more dem lately than rep). Can I redact and amend a “lately” to the end of it?

  27. tomfliesthebonnieblue

    this just in…
    government sponsored election fraud…
    SCOTUS sides with Ohio Dems, will not hear case brought by GOP.
    one man, one vote has become ‘by any means necessary’

  28. Dino

    “False. Kennedy would have won even without Illinois” – Bud
    Bud, do you not see facts and a creditable news source painstakingly placed with my comment? The conclusion regarding JFK and Illinois belongs to that source.
    Where are your facts to support JFK did not need Illinois’s electoral votes? If he lost Illinois, what would that have done to his momentum in the rest of the country? Why would Joe Kennedy pay for votes JFK did not need? I think we both know those answers, Bud.
    By the way, are you trying to defend voter fraud as irrelevant? If Republicans are as guilty of voting fraud as you implied, why are facts so skewed toward malfeasance by Democrats? Surely a paper like Gannet would have picked up both. But, it was 4-1 Democrat ineligibles voting, Bud, not even close.

  29. HP

    Mr. Lee Muller,
    Thanks & can’t say as I would disagree with any of those experiential stints.
    Join us Ron Paul-ies. We’ll pick you up in the blimp!

  30. tomfliesthebonnieblue

    the fact that anyone would discount a single instance of voter fraud shows a callous disregard for the rule of law and our representative form of government. and anyone with attitude shouldn’t be voting.
    it’s telling how those who don’t care about acorn, also disregard the need for personal responsibility across the board. little do they realize they are the advocates for anarchy.
    those who condone ayers past actions should have no problem with those turning fire hoses on civil rights marchers. its just political expression isn’t it? it was a long time ago right?
    americans chickens are coming home to roost; the incremental trashing of the american republic continues unabated.

  31. bud

    Let me give you guys a math lesson. In the 1960 presidential election there were a total of 530 available electoral votes, 8 fewer than we have today. To win a candidate needed 266. Kennedy got 303 to Nixon’s 219 with Mississippi casting it’s 8 votes to a third party candidate. Illinois had 27 votes that year. If you subtract 27 from Kennedy’s total and add that to Nixon’s we have it Kennedy 276 – Nixon 246. Kennedy still wins with 10 votes to spare. So how did Kennedy’s alleged ‘vote theft’ change the election? Not one iota.

  32. Lee Muller

    The vote theft in Chicago is not “alleged”, but proven by the 50,000 Nixon ballots dug up in the landfill some 20 years after the election.
    This was not likey the only vote fraud by Democrats in the 1960 election. Papa Joe Kennedy was the primary supplier of branded whiskey to the Mafia during Prohibition, and he called in all his chits.
    Democrats say vote fraud doesn’t matter if it does not affect the outcome of the election.
    Democrats say vote fraud doesn’t matter if the Democrat won the election.

  33. Herb Brasher

    Cap, just for the record, I like the idea of national ID cards.
    Nice to have you back, but try to be a little bit menschlich.

  34. Ish Beverly

    You can always tell what a liberal Democrat has done, going to do, or planning to do by whatever he accuses his opponent of doing or has done. With the help of the liberal news media, this has worked many times. It is being used on this blog by the Obama supporters. No wonder voter fraud doesn’t bother them. I think it is outrageous.

  35. Tim

    “I guess its just that several of your more recent posts seem to look that way as kind of mirror images to the ones on the right (even to me, who has voted a lot more dem lately than rep). Can I redact and amend a “lately” to the end of it?”
    In my relatively short time visiting Brad’s blog there are two individuals who strike me as so blinded by their partisan views that they cannot even begin to see the forest for the trees. The first, of course, is Lee. While he may bring up some good points now and then, his tact is such that his arguments are easily dismissed. It really is a shame because I think a few of his arguments deserve at least a little credit.
    The second is Bud, who is just as bad as Lee but just on the other side. He brings up valid points and criticisms of McCain at times, but again, his blind devotion to party and all things Obama is rather sickening. Phillip is in love with Obama just about as much as Bud is, but at least Phillip makes some rational arguments. I don’t agree with him one iota, but I’ve come to respect his posts. Plus, he’s got a cute kid. Same can’t be said for Bud (at least the argument part). If there was a time when Bud didn’t sound so sycophantic it must have been before I showed up.
    So yes, I’d classify both of you as “out there.”

  36. Karen McLeod

    It’s not voting fraud until someone shows up claiming his name is “mickey mouse” and attempts to vote. Sure, I imagine that more than a few of the people hired by ACORN turned in false names rather than do the work of actually finding real people to register, but I doubt that very many people are going to turn up with false documents (like a driver’s license) bearing that identity, and attempt to vote. My guess is that 3/4 of the ‘real’ people that ACORN actually registered will not show up to vote. I’m with you Brad; there’s not much to get worked up over.

  37. Anon.

    “Plus, he’s [Phillip] got a cute kid. Same can’t be said for Bud (at least the argument part).”
    Bud, I’d be all over that one if I were you.
    ………..but being the Barackian you are, you will probably gracefully tapdance away from full frontal combat.

  38. Tim

    That’s one thing that’s always intrigued me, Karen. It’s certainly disconcerting to me that some are being registered incorrectly, but it doesn’t affect anything until they actually vote. However, the fact that such shenanigans are going on means, I think, that we should be especially vigilant that there is no fraud at the polls. In my mind that means, at a minimum, showing picture ID. I don’t see how that in itself infringes on someone’s right to vote, but the argument is made every election cycle that it does.

  39. Capital A

    but being the Barackian you are, you will probably gracefully tapdance away from full frontal combat.
    Posted by: Anon. | Oct 17, 2008 4:30:32 PM
    He may, but I won’t. To quote that fine Democrat Doc Holliday as written in Tombstone, “I’m your Huckleberry.”.
    Barack did not “tapdance” away from combat, Anon.esuch. In fact, he chose to not engage in unwarranted and unneccessary aggression, something that you would think a wraith of McCain’s age would have learned by now.
    Imagine if the leader of the free world had such patience and clarity of thought over the last eight years? Maybe we would have attacked the correct enemies instead of initiating a spirit-crushing, economy-crumbling, brain-addled policy of colonialism lite?
    I sure hope Bush Daddy is proud of his baby boy now. The past eight years have been one long, expensive and pointless exercise in Baby Bush’s need for masculine and self-consolidation.
    Well, you did it, Bush Baby. Your approval rating is 16 percent higher than your fraternal rival Jeb’s, and he didn’t even run for president!
    To Herb: You know I merely was jesting with you. You’re one of the few consistent posters that I respect on this blog, not that you can redeem that “honor” for even a dollar.

  40. Anon.

    I give you that one, A.
    Going after Nancy (Pelosi) and Harry would have saved us $10 million [or, either billion — I’ll have to refresh my Ron Paul footage] a month.
    And boy could we use it now.
    But W will always be sweet in my book. And I bet he never ONCE told Laura what to wear. Or even thought about it.

  41. pam,greenwood

    Brad , it’s voter registration fraud . I don’t think Mickey Mouse will show up to vote. Brad , you’re more concerned with Ayers and Wright well come on . I guess McCain’s connections or associations do not matter. Wow looks like this blog might be more about McCartyism than anything else. So long.

  42. Herb Brasher

    Thanks, Cap. We could get into an argument again over SEC vs Big 12 football, but Brad doesn’t like football. Better not–he’s also gotten sticky on sticking to the topic.

  43. p.m.

    Just saying, now that you and bud have hashed it out, I’ll agree with you. Six months ago, bud was not even close to being as biased as he seems now.
    And even now, once in a while, there seems to be a moment of clarity.
    Meanwhile, Karen, if Illini can register on the sly in Ohio, who’s to say they won’t be able to vote fraudulently, too?
    I would concede, however, that Mickey Mouse probably won’t be able to vote anywhere.

  44. Capital A

    Anon, Pelosi would be a fine target in my opinion, as well. I wish the Republican party would pursue her allegiance in the way the Democrats did for McCain in 2000.
    Herb, there’s no argument there. See also: last two college national championships. If we could rid ourselves of the northern media bias in sports, I would consider that the greatest victory won.
    To keep it on topic (kind of), remember that Bush Baby always wanted to be the commissioner of baseball. Who knows? I may have liked him better if he was on steroids and actually backed up the “tough guy ‘tude” he always tried (and failed) to project.

  45. john

    The last presidential election was settled by 135,000 people in Ohio. The Sec. of State in Ohio is fighting the Supreme Court in order to make legit 200,000 fraudulant registrations. Tell me again why this doesn’t matter. That’s the story in just one state. Brad, you admitted in another post that you know nothing about ACORN. Maybe it’s time you quit typing and start researching.

  46. Mickey Mouse

    It sounds to me like there are people out there trying to disenfranchise me. I’m voting Obama, cause he’s just like me (I’ve got big ears, too!).

  47. Capital A

    But Mickey, you were created by a Nazi sympathizer!
    Republican modes of conduct dictate that you can’t associate yourself with someone having such an extreme view, even if your task and goal at the time had nothing to do with that same viewpoint…even if you are supported by financial backers who have ties to the same party that is calling you to task for the function they, themselves, funded!
    I know it’s unfair, Mickey. I, too, wish your critics would just admit that the crucial reason they’ll never vote for you is that you’re a mouse. It’s a small (minded) world after all, Mickey.
    (cue end credits to Song of the South)

  48. Brad Warthen

    Mickey raises a good point: What if somebody’s name IS “Mickey Mouse?”
    If he had a national ID card, he could prove it.
    Think about it.
    Folks, Obama’s not going to steal this election. And McCain’s not going to pull off an upset by denying people the right to vote. Not gonna happen, either way.
    People look at what happened in Florida in 2000, and it’s like the blind men and the elephant: Democrats see people being disenfranchised. Republicans worry about people voting who shouldn’t. Me, I look at all those people who went to vote, and were allowed to vote, and weren’t smart enough to figure out a punch card. THAT’s what appalls me. That’s the big picture.

  49. Brad Warthen

    Oh, and for whoever it was who complained about a NEWS man not being concerned about a NEWS story…
    I’m not a news man. Haven’t been for 14 years. I’m a common tater.
    No, that’s not a misspelling. I was just remembering a joke from “Boy’s Life” magazine when I was a kid: “Why did the potato not want his daughter to marry Eric Sevareid? Because he was just a common tater.”
    I’ll go away now. And if you’re too young to remember Eric Sevareid, then you should go home, too. Your mama’s calling you.

  50. Lee Muller

    These Democrats were all for denying the vote to our servicemen in Iraq back in 2000 and 2004, because those votes were overwhelmingly against Gore and Kerry.
    But they have no problem with
    college students voting twice for Democrats,
    winos being hauled to the polls by Democrats,
    the mentally retarded being trained with candy bars to vote straight Democrat (with a “facilitator” in the booth with them,
    illegal aliens voting in droves.
    One of the Obama spinmeisters I just saw on TV plead guilty to laundering millions of illegal contributions from Red China to Bill Clinton, and was later pardoned by Clinton, but the liberal host never mentioned that.

  51. Bart

    Brad,I have to disagree with you on this one. It is one thing to make accusations about voter fraud and another thing to actually have verifiable proof of it. Republicans were accused of massive voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 yet there was never any proof found, documented, or anyone prosecuted for voter fraud. Accusations were plentiful and investigations done but nothing found to warrant criminal prosecution.
    However, ACORN has been proven to be engaged in voter fraud and fraudulent actions in registering new voters. While it may be accurate to make the argument that most of the newly registered voters won’t go to the polls on election day is not the same as the voters who have been picked up off the street, taken to the polls, registered and voted on the same day. Too many have admitted they were encouraged to voter for Obama and some had “help” in the voting booth. Unless these people were lying, their own words convicted them and ACORN.
    We should be upset as a people because we live under the premise this is a nation of laws and expect all citizens to have respect for the law.
    At one time the only people eligible to vote were property owners. Then the law changed and that prerequisite was dropped. Eventually women were given the right to vote. Absentee voting was allowed. In most states, there were laws requiring voters to be registered 30 days before the election. Some required proof of residency and other means to guarantee that the person casting their vote met the requirements under the law.
    Voter fraud has always been an issue especially when one county in Ohio had more registered voters than actual residents. In other incidents, people who had been dead for years suddenly appeared at the polls and cast a vote. Where are the Ghostbusters when you need them?
    Every legal citizen of the United States has the right to cast a vote for the candidate of their choice. I don’t think anyone can argue that point. But, where does a right end and abuse begin? Is it right for a person to cast a vote for a candidate when they have no idea of what the person stands for, their background, their character or lack of, or any of the other attributes that qualify the person for the particular office they are seeking?
    If I know an alcholic will cast his/her vote for my candidate if I buy him/her a beer or shot of whiskey, does that constitute fraud? If I know that the voter I pick up off the street has no more interest in who is elected but will vote for the candidate I tell them to, does that abuse the right to vote and what does that say about me? Is this democracy in action or is it outright manipulation of the outcome of an election?
    A few votes in an election can and has made a difference too often. Take the case of Wukela v Willis in Florence. Wukela won the Democrat primary by only one vote. Willis challenged in court and lost even though the courts had ruled in favor of another case recently the other way. If Willis had been able to have some votes overturned or a new vote, he might have won. Yet, a man who served several years as mayor and apparently been a decent mayor was voted out by one vote.
    It does matter and we should be concerned when voter fraud or the potential of fraud is exposed. ACORN has too much baggage relating to unscrupulous activities registering voters to ignore it.
    Remember Obama does have ties to ACORN and when Obama won his first Illinois state senate seat, he used the courts and legal system to challenge all of his opponents and systematically had them removed from the ballot, one by one. Some of the issues involved were voter fraud.
    When Obama ran for the Illinois senate seat, his opponent had to drop out over the allegations of sexual misconduct that resulted in a divorce and the records had been sealed by mutual consent. Yet, Obama and his supporters were able to have the court unseal the records and his opponent dropped out, replaced by Alan Keyes and Obama won by somewhere around a 70% margin.
    And if you don’t believe what I have said here, go check the facts for yourself to determine if it is accurate or false.
    So, yes we should be very concerned about ACORN.

  52. p.m.

    If you have a voting addiction…
    If you’ve registered in more than a dozen states using thousands of different names in thousands of different precincts…
    If you’re tired of licking stamps or just buying stamps for the thousands of absentee ballots you’ve mailed…
    You can confess here, anonymously.
    Liberals will lend you an ear.
    Those same people who screamed voter fraud in Ohio four years ago and election fraud in Florida eight years ago will tell you that kind of thing doesn’t make much difference now, because their candidate is the one who stands to benefit from it, and they think he’s so good he can’t help but win, fraud or not, so why worry?
    Just ease your conscience here with a little confession. We conservatives won’t trace you cybernetically, we promise we won’t. We’ll respect your constitutional right to privacy the same way you respect our candidates for president and vice president.
    And if you happen to be more than one of the 540,000 voters who have already cast their ballots in Georgia, well, please ‘fess up. We have a special place in our hearts for Georgians, really we do, UGA fans in particular, and we’d love to see you get the help you need.

  53. Nanna

    I see or hear little “personal honor” in the comments in this thread, or in politics today.
    If one applies the Golden Rule (how quaint and old fashion), most of the modern day activities and comments would be unacceptable.
    When did we lose our honor? When did we begin to accept the lies of the left, and the right?
    This election points out the wisdom of the “good book”. I need to spend more time with it, and less with the MSW.

  54. john

    Bart and PM,
    You, of course, do not need my approval, but those were excellent comments. The fact that Brad has no concern about this is incredibly disappointing.

  55. Dave

    Brad, good wordplay, I’ll try again
    What does is say about the media COMMON TATERS of NEWS when one of the media COMMENTATORS puts in writing that he is not concerned about the,,,, NEWS?
    Made you sound kind of folksy though,,, oh no, not like Sarah Palin??? Not that kind of folksy, you know, liberal folksy,,,
    No one will ever convince me that ACORN is operating properly and I fully beleive that the lawyers have all been briefed and the jets will be standing by to descend on free people and steal the election. I beleive this plan has been carefully executed over the years and the final act will occur soon. After obama gets in this will become standard process…pelosi, reid, obama,,, the end of free America could very well be at hand and the advent of a new socialist state will begin.

  56. slugger

    Dave has this perfectly right.
    Brad, good wordplay, I’ll try again
    What does is say about the media COMMON TATERS of NEWS when one of the media COMMENTATORS puts in writing that he is not concerned about the,,,, NEWS?
    Made you sound kind of folksy though,,, oh no, not like Sarah Palin??? Not that kind of folksy, you know, liberal folksy,,,
    No one will ever convince me that ACORN is operating properly and I fully beleive that the lawyers have all been briefed and the jets will be standing by to descend on free people and steal the election. I beleive this plan has been carefully executed over the years and the final act will occur soon. After obama gets in this will become standard process…pelosi, reid, obama,,, the end of free America could very well be at hand and the advent of a new socialist state will begin.
    Thanks Dave.

  57. Bart

    bud, you wrote in one of your comments the following:
    “5. The Ayers and Wright stuff are completely unimportant.
    6. The Keating 5/Agee stuff is not very important but perhaps sheds a tiny bit of light on the character of McCain, namely he’s not much of a maverick.
    A couple of comments about these two items.
    The Keating 5 incident took place over 20 years ago and McCain, along with John Glenn (Democrat) was exonerated by Democrats, not just Republicans. The other three who were proven to be involved were Democrats. In his book, this was a key factor in changing his lifes course. (of course, an autobiographical depiction will always try to portray a negative in a more positive light. Just read Obama’s first book if you doubt it.) The following is a sentence taken from the Wikipedia page on the incident – judge for yourself.
    “After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised “poor judgment”.
    Again, the Keating 5 incident took place over 20 years ago. The Ayers and Wright connections are in the present, not the past. McCain has been passionate with his regrets over Keating but Obama has been anything but forthcoming or expressing any real passion about the inflammatory comments made by Wright or outrage over the comments made by Ayers on 9/11 and most recently, his appearance on stage with Hugo Chavez.
    I understand supporting your candidate and defending him from criticism but where is the line drawn when it comes to a level playing field? McCain has some problems that do bother me. Rolling Stone has an article about McCain that paints a very ugly picture of the man. I don’t know how much is truth, how much is conjecture, or how much is a combination of both. If the incident about calling his wife a c**t is factual, then give the names of the three reporters who witnessed the incident. I have no use for or place much credibility in anonymous sources.
    Truth is that I am not a McCain fan, never have been. But, with that said, I am more in line with his policies than Obama’s. Very dissatisfied with both.

  58. Lee Muller

    If Obama is elected, Democrats intend to pass legislation allowing felons still in prison to vote. The have sponsored this legislation for years, but the GOP has stopped passage. Hillary Clinton is a big pusher for getting more illegal aliens and felons to vote.

  59. Capital A

    Ok, Bart, I will attempt to play your game, even though I suspect that no matter what sources I post concerning McCain’s scurrilous speech will be deemed incredible by you. What is it with cartoon character namesakes supporting the Republican party on this blog? Appropriate, I guess…
    Instead, I will allow you to do your own homework. I googled “McCain calling wife c–t” and was greeted with myriad articles and video clips concerning the issue. You can do the same.
    Much like Bush Baby, McCain is a spoiled brat, plainly and simply, and occassionally we glimpse the man behind the act, as this particular vagina monologue proves.
    To further underline your hypocrisy, I must ask how, exactly, the Keating Five incident is “in the past” when McCain maintains many of those same relationships? Look with better eyes, my friend (I just did a “McCain” right there!), and listen with better ears.
    Obama has explained his connection to Ayers as directly as any logical person could expect. Let’s connect some crazy from your job with whom you once were forced to work or did so willingly when you were unaware of his or her past. Even if you did know about his or her past, does that make you cuplable for his or her previous sins, does that make you culpable by association?
    I thought spectral evidence died out with the Puritans. Surely, their spirit lives on in the GOP as I see Republicans want to build that city upon the hill on a mountain of hypocrisy.

  60. Lee Muller

    Investigators found no wrongdoing by McCain in the Keating 5 case. There were 2 state, 3 federal law enforcement investigations, and 3 Congressional investigations.
    McCain was “reprimanded” by a Democrat majority seeking cover for their boy, John Glenn, who WAS guilty of wrongdoing, taking $2,500,000 in “donations”.
    Obama’s sleazy pal scandals are TODAY, and ongoing – not that his supporters mind socialism and racist attacks on whites and Jews.

  61. Bob

    Warthen,the reason that you are not interested in ACORN is because you and The State want Obama to win – bottom line!

  62. Bob

    Hey Warthen, I’ll bet you a million bucks that you and The State would “be intersted” had McCain been involved with someone who had bombed abortion clinics, even if it had been done BEFORE McCain was BORN!!!!!!
    Your bias is sickening – especially for someone who calls themself a “journalist.”

  63. Bart

    Capital A,
    Thank you for your kind, thoughtful, and well reasoned response to my comments. I was not aware I was engaged in playing a game with you or anyone else. So, I humbly ask for your forgiveness for misleading you and expecting you to engage in a game you didn’t want to play or maybe didn’t quite understand. I will attempt to explain what the intent of the game was and hopefully you will be able to comprehend the simplicity of it. Are you ready? Here goes – The story has never been verified by the anonymous sources or the McCain staff members and I wanted to know, Why Not?
    I wrote the following, which I have to conclude is the reason for calling me a hypocrite, and I guess comparing me with the cartoon character, Mickey Mouse.
    “If the incident about calling his wife a c**t is factual, then give the names of the three reporters who witnessed the incident. I have no use for or place much credibility in anonymous sources.”
    In Cliff Schecter’s book, he wrote the following:
    “Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain’s intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain’s hair and said, “You’re getting a little thin up there.” McCain’s face reddened, and he responded, “At least I don’t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c**t.” McCain’s excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.”
    Schecter’s book is the only confirmed source of the quote. The three “reporters” have never been identified. Who are they? Why won’t they come forward and give their names? According to the book,McCain’s campaign aide, Doug Cole and consultant, Wes Gullett, were on the scene. Have they been contacted to confirm or deny the claim by the three “anonymous” reporters? If so, where in the book or anywhere else can their confirmation or denial be found? The reasons given for not coming out with the story when it happened are vaguely tied to a reluctance to use that type of language in the news. If I am not mistaken, 16 years ago, we were not all that innocent and it would not have been difficult for a good reporter to write a story and get his or her point across without using the “c” word.
    I did do my research and followed the trail on the internet – again. Shucks, I even “googled” the words -again and you are right, I found page after page, repeating the same thing over and over but nowhere did I find one report, video, affidavit, confirmation, or verification of the incident from any of the people mentioned in Schecter’s book. Not one.
    If this is a true account of what McCain said, I will be the first to condemn his remarks because they are offensive and he should be held accountable. My point is this: What is wrong with asking the question? Surely after 16 years, at least one, two, or all three of the reporters should have enough integrity to stand up and confirm the story. Until that day comes, I will place the story in its proper place – unconfirmed and attribute it to no one other than Schecter, who is a Democrat strategist and cannot be considered neutral or unbiased on the subject of John McCain.
    If you or anyone else has confirmation, let me know where to find it. Please.
    Your analogy about working with a crazy and not being aware of their past is not a very good attempt trying to explain away Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers. I think perhaps you missed the point – completely – or else you refuse to entertain the possibility that Obama actually did know about Ayers’ past and his domestic terrorist activities and did not find them disturbing or objectionable.
    Ayers and Obama most definitely share more than a neighborhood and the school where their children go together. Only problem is that both of Ayers children are adults and did not attend school at the same time with Obama’s children. This is not like the attempt a few years ago when someone tried to tie Hillary to some criminal just because they were walking down some stairs together or something to that effect. The rightists tried to take advantage of an innocent meeting and a photo op to criminalize Hillary.
    The history between Obama and Ayers is there and verifiable. Now, you do your research with an open mind, I did mine. And, I seriously doubt you will do either and if you do, no matter what you find or read “I suspect that no matter what resources I post concerning “Obama’s ties to Ayers” will be deemed incredible by you.” Sound familiar?
    The Keating Five incident is “in the past” and leftists refuse to acknowledge the fact that McCain and Glenn were exonerated of any wrongdoing but were found guilty of bad judgment in choosing associates. None of the other four are in the senate today so I have no way of verifying if McCain still associates with them or not.
    I am not sure what you were referring to when you mentioned “vagina monologue” in the context of your comments. If your post was intended to be a “vagina monologue”, I am quite sure the author of the Vagina Monologues, Eve Ensler would be insulted with an amateurish rant being referred to as an actual monologue if that was your intent.
    No, I just realized something. Are you Joe Biden plagiarizing from Ms. Ensler and trolling as Capital A.?

  64. Lee Muller

    The Obama followers don’t mind the profanity and racial slurs hurled by Obama at whites and Jews. They laughed when Obama made fun of plumbers and other blue-collar workers.
    It’s just like the pass they gave Bill Clinton when he used the word “n—-r” to refer to blacks who annoyed him, and was caught on videotape.

  65. Lee Muller

    Indianapolis has over 1,200,000 registered voters, and only 600,000 residents, including children. Most of the voters are new this year, registered Democrats, who won the primary for Obama.
    Obama stole the primaries, and now the election. He is unfit for office.

  66. Lee Muller

    Indianapolis has over 1,200,000 registered voters, and only 600,000 residents, including children. Most of the voters are new this year, registered Democrats, who won the primary for Obama.
    Obama stole the primaries, and now the election. He is unfit for office.

  67. bud

    Balance my ass. The GOP is the most disgusting bunch of vote disenfranchisers ever seen on this planet. They belong in the old Soviet Union, not the USA. This from the Michiganliberal.com:
    LANSING –An agreement announced today by Obama for America, the Republican National Committee, the Democratic National Committee, the Michigan Republican Party, the Michigan Democratic Party, the Macomb County Republican Party, the Macomb County Democratic Party, and plaintiffs Duane Maletski, Sharon Lopez, and Frances M. Zick protects the voting rights of foreclosure victims.
    The settlement acknowledges the existence of an illegal scheme by the Republicans to use mortgage foreclosure lists to deny foreclosure victims their right to vote. This settlement has the force of law behind it and ensures that Republicans cannot disenfranchise families facing foreclosure.

  68. Lee Muller

    If you don’t live in the house anymore, you are required by law to change your voter registration to your new legal residence.
    You have no legal right to vote using your old address. The GOP or any private citizen has the right to clean up the voter rolls.
    The only people who object to this are dishonest Democrats who want their voters to register and vote in 2 or 3 or 4 places, in order to subvert the electoral process.

  69. Capital A

    Bart, you were compared to Mickey Mouse because your name is suggestive of an idyllic cowboy from a Saturday serial or of that most famous of animated American ne’er-do-wells. I note your unhappiness with my jests, and I apologize for them because you do seem genuinely interested in engaging in debate, as per your last response.
    With that said, I will try to bring you out of Plato’s Allegorical Cave in another way. I am trying to highlight what I see as your hypocrisy and short-sightedness on this manner. Wish me luck…
    Bart, have you followed the paper trail of the Annenberg Foundation? From where and what types does it receive it’s funding, even at the time of the supposedly scrurrilous Obama/Ayers connection? So that you don’t sprain your Google-finger, here’s a hint: the most enfranschised and biggest contributors ain’t Democrats!
    If you reject that fact, then you are expecting me to believe that powerful, wealthy, magnanimous Republicans appointed officials and contributed thousands, nay millions, to this foundation without knowledge of Ayers’ past? You seriously expect me to believe that these members of the GOP would not have turned that screw down tightly if they suspected even a modicum of wrongdoing by this “dirty pair”?
    C’mon, Bart, that thinking does not reflect the normal modus operandi of the Republican party. Grand Olds are much too aggressive to tolerate someone suspected or even offhandedly mentioned as a terrorist in any important position, especially where their precious cash is concerned. Why wasn’t even an eyebrow raised back then, if this “terrorist” was such threat? Next you’ll be telling me that Republicans believe in quotas, too.
    To continue our adventures in spelunking, let’s shed some light on the “truthful” John McCain. In the last debate, he tried to cast Obama as a man who benefited from and tolerated the abuses of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While it is true that these two largely were under the auspices of Democratic control until 2004, a great Republican “buyout” of sorts took place in that year. Google that one, too, and pay attention to whose top advisers and in which party received millions of dollars in funds from those failed corporations.
    In sparing your Google-finger once again, I’ll tell you: Both parties’ officials received money, but the Republican contribution was much higher and in the millions. I wonder why that is, Bart?
    Maybe I’ll just wonder around in this cave, and play dumb about McCain’s veracity just to walk a mile in your clay-covered shoes through murky reasoning. Once you’re finished googling the facts, I can’t tell you where to stick that finger, but I hope it’s not in your ears.
    Take a rest as you’ve tapdanced from truth much too often in this blog already. Let your fingers do the walking awhile. Intentionally or unintentionally, you’ve slung enough mud for now.

  70. Dave

    More NEWS you will not see in “the state”, ACORN accused of fraud by ny times,,,,,, Now 6 counties in Alabama have more registered voters than elegible voters,,, hmmmm, smells like ACORN, the corrupt arm of the democratic socialist party.

  71. Lee Muller

    Obama refuses to release names of donors.
    Some names reported to the FEC have over 1,000 contributions, totalling amounts which are far illegal, such as $18,000 and $23,000 per donor.
    The FEC is investigating $32,500,000 in online donations from Arab countries through the Obama online storefront.
    Posted by: Lee Muller | Oc

  72. Bart

    Capital A,
    I thought about a rebuttal but realized it would be an exercise in futility and energy plus the notion of wasting any more of my time responding to you was ludicrous. When you try to present a reasoned argument to a Lilliputian mind, it becomes apparent there is no room for an alternative point of view or the ability to question anything beyond the standard desultory responses and argument ending insipient phrases that reveal the soul of a seasoned misologist.
    So, instead of wasting time using my “google finger” and opting not to insert it in the obvious place alluded to in your comments, I will leave that particular indulgence in your hands for you to enjoy. I will return to my cave and gaze in wonder and amazement at the shadows of ignorance as they dance across the ceiling and walls, believing they are real. The solitude is much preferred to engaging an egocentric grobian in a discussion at any level.

  73. Lee Muller

    Only respond to Obama worshippers like bud and Capital A in order to use them as punching bags, and examples of the hatred which drives the rotten core Democrats.
    Always just stay on message, posting the facts about Obama’s agenda of racist socialism.

  74. Capital A

    The thing is, Lee and Bart, (With those two names typed, why do I suddenly feel like I’m in a Ford Western?), I don’t hate you or your viewpoints. I want your worldview out there. I trust individual people to decide what is right for this country, with the entire spectrum of options fully expressed and displayed for all to see. As fringe and nutty as you may be defined, your opinions still work to sharpen and augment my own.
    Poking fun at what I deem as your ignorance is just a fringe benefit…as well as way to cheer myself to keep from crying that intelligent people like yourselves (and I meant that, honestly) can be so small-mindedness. For years, you and the creator of this blog have defended an administration that is deeply flawed, criminal and with the enlightenment of future investigations, possibly treasonous. Evidence for that charge abounds.
    I just wonder what else has to come to light in order to get you to see the failures of such deep party loyalty. Are you beyond all reason, and if so, what made you choose to put your duty to your country beneath that you owe your country?
    I am speaking about your Bush Baby defenses, moreso than choice for McCain as President. When either McCain or Obama is chosen, it cannot be as terrible as the last eight years. I am positive about our shared futures, regardless of the outcome of this election.


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