Open Thread for Wednesday, February 22, 2017

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Today, most of the leading news is Trump-free! And no artificial additives!

  1. Scientists discover seven Earthlike planets orbiting a nearby star — This is very cool. And they’re only 229,261,492,590,000 miles from here, as a crow would fly if he could fly through space and wasn’t inclined to get tired after a few hundred billion miles. Hey, maybe there’s an alternative Earth where Kasich won the election! A lot of us would like to go to there! (I didn’t say the news was entirely Trump-free.)
  2. Free-speech advocates rail against House anti-Semitism bill — Our second time today on this subject. Have you ever noticed that a very wide range of people style themselves “free-speech advocates?” Some are actual champions of liberal democracy, and some, not so much…
  3. City of Columbia to provide healthier food choices for employees, residents, guests — We’re talking in terms of what’s offered in city park vending machines, and what is served if the city has a luncheon or something. I figured this might start some “free speech.”
  4. Bernie Sanders Loyalists Are Taking Over the Democratic Party One County Office at a Time — And I definitely didn’t say it would be Bernie-free…
  5. Men: Strenuous Exercise May Be Hurting Your Sex Life — You know, I had just started back to putting some time in on the elliptical this week, but maybe that’s a bad idea…

63 thoughts on “Open Thread for Wednesday, February 22, 2017

  1. Burl Burlingame

    If a person cannot express their anti-Semiticism in public, how will we know who the a-holes are?

    1. Brad Warthen Post author

      You’re describing one of the great dilemmas in being a newspaper editor, especially dealing with the editorial page.

      To what extent do you allow letter-writers, for instance, to use your space to say outrageously offensive things? And if you don’t — if you cut out the bad parts — are you giving the readers an unrealistically positive impression of the person. And if you don’t run the letter at all, don’t you give everyone an unrealistically rosy view of the human race, setting them up for a shock when they encounter the ugliness that you routinely see?

      Usually, this problem solved itself. Most racist rants and such were anonymous, and we didn’t run letters that weren’t signed and confirmed by us.

      Once, though, we had an anti-Semitic letter signed by a real person with his real name and real address. And I ran it as it was so that, as you say, everyone could see what an a-hole this guy — who was sort of known to us at the paper for his extreme views — was.

      Boy, did THAT stir up some folks in Columbia’s small Jewish community. I received a delegation that came in to complain about it.

      I was fully sympathetic to their feelings, but I had to pose the question: Wouldn’t you rather be forewarned that this guy is out there, and see how he really is?

      It was a question for myself as well as for them. And some days I’m inclined to answer it “yes,” and sometimes “no.”…

  2. Mark Stewart

    Winthrop U. has an interesting poll out:

    S.C. Republicans remain supportive of Trump, with more than three-quarters saying they approve of the president’s performance.

    Trump fares better among white S.C. residents. Only 34 percent of white South Carolinians agreed that he’s doing a poor job while more than half gave the president high marks.

    Trump also is more popular among S.C. men. About half of the men polled said the president was doing a good job, while more women – 54 percent – disapprove of the president’s job performance.

    ▪ Only 39 percent of S.C. residents describe Trump as thoughtful

    Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article134435254.html#storylink=cpy

    34% of white South Carolinians believe Trump is doing a poor job as President… let that sink in. Hopefully, we will continue to see this number rise.

    1. Claus

      34% of white South Carolinians are likely registered Democrats.

      In other Breaking News, 99.9% of black South Carolinians believe Obama was the greatest President ever.

      1. Brad Warthen Post author

        See, this is the kind of comment that’s right on the cusp of creating the kind of dilemma I mentioned earlier.

        And Claus, NO South Carolinians are registered Democrats. Or registered Republicans, either. We don’t register by party here, thank God. That’s one way in which we’re an enlightened state, contrary to our image…

        1. Claus

          Okay then put it another way, you can only vote in one primary… Republican or Democratic. Pure semantics.

          1. Brad Warthen Post author

            Not just semantics. I’m only allowed to vote in one primary in the same election. But I can choose which one. I almost always vote in the Republican primary, but can vote in the Democratic if I want (and did so in the state primary in 2010, and the presidential in 2004 — when the GOP one was a foregone conclusion).

            If we had to register, I wouldn’t be free to do that…

          2. scout

            Your semantics don’t work. I am basically a democrat. I Dont limit myself to just that point of view but probably 90% of the time my views are more closely alligned with the democratic point of view than republican. But probably 90% of the time I’ve voted in the republican primary rather than democratic, so if you are using which primary a person votes in to predict party affiliation, your premise fails. Sorry.

      2. Mark Stewart

        If 34% of white South Carolinians are actually Democrats then Trump never would have won SC.

        No, the facts are that very few whites voted for someone other than Trump in SC. Some of them, such as yourself, sound like the 16% who would vote for him on principle. The rest of the people who voted for Trump are the ones I hope will begin to change their minds.

        1. Doug Ross

          Hillary Clinton got 24% of white vote and 6% went for “other” in SC. So about 30% of whites were already against Trump. Not that far from 34%.

          1. scout

            I’m hoping that when the consequences of Trump policies start negatively impacting their lives, it will start to change their minds. What remains to be seen is if they will be smart enough to realize the cause or will buy the spin that will undoubtably monopolize their bubble insisting that everyone and everything else is to blame.

    1. Doug Ross

      “…where are the actual Republicans going to go?”
      “…where are the actual Democrats to go?”

      Hopefully to the same place. And they better bring their fire retardant underwear.

      1. Mark Stewart

        Doug,

        You make centrists out to be the bad people bound for hell. The ones who are in the middle – and of both parties.

        Just think about that world view on display for a minute.

        1. Doug Ross

          Ok, let me think about Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, Harry Reid, John Boehner, Charles Rangel, Lindsey Graham, Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz… Yeah, If I can expedite their journey, I will gladly pay for the upgrade.

          There is no middle ground. Only self-interested career politicians on both ends of the spectrum.

          The greatest change we could make to change politics as we know it would be to implement term limits. 12 years is plenty of time to do your thing and get out. But that’s when all the perks of the office really start kicking in.

          1. Brad Warthen Post author

            “Perks?” What “perks?” The possibility of a chairmanship, so you might get something done?

            I have more to say on the completely backward notion that public service — and not, say, devoting your life to making billions for yourself — is what’s self-interested…

            1. Doug Ross

              Uh, the majority of our Congress is comprised of multi-millionaires.

              Are you seriously suggesting that people like Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell are motivated by selfless servitude to the people? Here, maybe you can check out this link that shows (via FOIA) that Pelosi spent $101,000 of taxpayer dollars on food and lots of drinks on flights over a two year period as speaker. $1000 a week..

              http://www.businessinsider.com/nancy-pelosis-in-flight-food-and-drink-costs-101000-2010-1

              Yeah, as bud would say, I’m sure that’s just anecdotal.

              1. Doug Ross

                I hope you will address Nancy Pelosi’s spending habits. I’d like to see you justify them as reasonable.

                We won’t get into the junkets, the insider trading tips, the patronage jobs, the quid pro quos.. Just Nancy’s $100K bar tab.

                1. Doug Ross

                  If you don’t like the Pelosi story, how about this one from today:

                  “Jesse Jackson Jr. , a Chicago Democrat, spent 17 years in Congress before resigning while under FBI investigation. He pleaded guilty in 2013 to using about $750,000 in campaign cash over several years for vacations, luxury goods, celebrity memorabilia and other items. At the time he resigned in late November 2012, he was being paid $174,000 a year.”

                  Now Jesse Jr. is collecting Jackson about $138,400 a year. Most of that — about $100,000 — is workers’ compensation and tax-free, according to Chicago attorney Barry Schatz, who is representing Jackson in his divorce proceeding. His “disability”? Depression and bipolar exacerbated by his divorce proceedings.

                  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-jesse-jackson-junior-federal-benefits-met-20170222-story.html

                2. Doug Ross

                  And to be fair and balanced, former Speaker Dennis Hasbert is still collecting $76K in federal pension money while sitting in prison. He was receiving a total of $222K per year in pensions from three government agencies until one was taken away for being a felon.

            2. Phillip

              When I think of somebody “devoting their life to public service,” I tend to think more of somebody at the local government level who also serves on boards, active in making their communities better places. Once you get to Congress, it’s hard for me to think of these folks as completely selfless.

              Doug is right about the wealth of our ruling class in Congress.

              I will say this, though: if you look at the list of the 50 wealthiest in Congress (this was compiled in 2015), there’s a clear divide: 33 Republicans, 17 Democrats.

              1. Brad Warthen Post author

                No one, no one, NO one is “completely selfish.”

                And in the case of politicians, ego-gratification can be a huge part of the motivation. Sometimes — I’m thinking Bill Clinton — they can be downright needy about it.

                And one way Doug is right is that more experienced lawmakers can sometimes — but not always — assume a certain arrogance of power. They can become sort of self-congratulatory about the power they’ve amassed, the way someone like Trump boasts about the money he’s managed to grab for himself…

                1. scout

                  Not that I disagree that Bill Clinton has the ego gratification thing, but I believe Trump wins that one.

            3. Claus

              So there are no perks in being a US Senator or Congressman? Am I to believe all these people are doing this job for the sense of patriotic and civic duty? God bless those unselfish people!!! (queue up God Bless America).

          2. bud

            Term limits gave us Trump by not allowing the gifted Obama to run again. Most anti democratic idea ever put forth.

            1. Doug Ross

              “Gifted”

              That’s a good one. History will view Obama as one of the least effective Presidents in history. He was going to be about Hope and Change and he ended up doing so well that Donald Trump grabbed the Presidency away from him. Just like George Bush’s failure as a President opened the door for Obama, Obama’s inability to actually do anything sent the country looking for ANYTHING else.

              Say what you will about Reagan, but he’s the only two termer in my lifetime who was able to extend his legacy. Bill Clinton crashed and burned, George Bush sent us to unnecessary wars and ignored the crashing economy, and Obama stood around and read teleprompters.

              1. Brad Warthen Post author

                Actually, that IS a good one… a good word.

                Being “gifted” doesn’t mean you’re the most effective or not. But I don’t see how anyone could listen to Obama speak, ever, and not see him as gifted.

                I missed the speech that made him famous, at the 2004 convention. I heard about it, but had never listened to it. Then one day a year or two later, I heard someone speaking on NPR — they were running an extended clip of a speech. I missed the beginning, so I didn’t know who it was. But I listened, without any preconceived notion of what I might hear.

                And I was blown away. He was amazing — not just what he said, but how he said it. His voice, his cadence, his manner were very charismatic. Who IS this guy? I wondered, because I hadn’t heard anybody like that in a bunch of years.

                So I waited to the end, to find out. They said it was Barack Obama. And I was like — oh, the guy people said was so awesome at the convention. No wonder.

                You know how when you listen to something on the radio, your imagination can create a picture for you? Well, I was so clueless as to who it was that I was sort of picturing a white guy as I listened. A very talented white guy, perhaps even in the league of JFK or FDR.

                Yeah, he’s gifted all right. Anyone who pretends otherwise is just refusing to listen…

                1. Doug Ross

                  We’re all gifted. It’s what you do with the gifts that matter. A gifted speaker who can’t convince anyone to accomplish anything isn’t worth much — especially as President.

                  1. Brad Warthen Post author

                    And Doug, we’re not all gifted. Not so it shows to every unbiased person who meets you. I think ONE of the things people despised about Obama was that he had the kind of gifts that people had readily recognized his whole life. People like that get treated as gifted from the start, in school. And they come to expect it as a matter of course — sort of the way beautiful women get used to people reacting to them a certain way. And while Obama was exquisitely polite and careful not to swagger or boast (again, the opposite of a certain person), I think people could see that this was a guy who’d always been treated as gifted, and they resented it deeply…

                2. Brad Warthen Post author

                  This has nothing to do with your politics, or his. You don’t have to agree with someone to recognize a gifted speaker with a first-rate mind…

                  It has really struck me over the last few years how his detractors try so hard to deny his gift — especially those who go on about his use of a teleprompter. They utterly ignore that everybody uses them, and even more willfully ignore his smooth, thoughtful delivery in impromptu situations, such as press conferences (the absolute opposite of you-know-who).

                  And everyone knew what that was supposed to imply. White men can speak for themselves, but this guy has to have it written out for him by someone smarter — you know, a white guy….

              2. bud

                Reagan is waaay over rated. His legacy include the disasterous decline of the middle class and income inequality. His 900 ship navy added trillions to the national debt.

                Obama will be remembered for finally moving the needle in the right direction on health care. Plus he established a sensible approach to foreign policy. He is famously responsible for a record 70+ months of job growth. Trump inherited a good situation that he can build on if he’ll grasp the moment. A plurality of American were sensible enough to realize a continuation of these successful policies was in the nations best interest.

                1. Doug Ross

                  “He is famously responsible for a record 70+ months of job growth”

                  Responsible in what way? Which policies did he implement? Or was it just the magic TARP wand he waved to bail out companies by using imaginary deficit spending?

                2. Claus

                  70+ months, is that how long the Federal Reserve has been pumping money into the economy? Seems longer than that.

                  Sounds to me like “Bush’s fault” will be replaced with “Trump’s inheritance” from the left.

  3. Karen Pearson

    The same place where we can work together to put out the fires and restore the area to a growing, loving, sane, and healthy community Doug.

    Given the choice between Trump and Sanders, I’ll take Sanders. He may be out there, but at least he’s willing to work with people.

    I’m fascinated by having so many ‘livable planets’ so close together. I’m crazy enough to think that there might be life on more than one of them. And perhaps these life forms survived long enough to learn to live in peace together.

    1. Doug Ross

      I would have voted for Bernie instead of Gary Johnson even though I absolutely hate some of his ideas. But I think he would at least represent some sanity when it came to defense spending at the expense of domestic spending.

    2. Claus

      “And perhaps these life forms survived long enough to learn to live in peace together.”

      When has that ever happened on this planet? Man will become extinct before that ever happens. As old as the earth is, and as little as man has been here I’d say we’re realistically past the 50% lifespan of this species. A million years from now I don’t expect we’ll still be here… I’d be surprised if man survives another 2000 years.

  4. Claus

    So Trump being elected President of this country is a now downfall for all mankind?

    Did you forget about the two world wars and just in this country the little thing called a “civil war”?

    1. Brad Warthen Post author

      Well, it’s certainly not evolutionary progress.

      I seem to recall us coming out of those experiences you mention stronger and better. In other words, they led to progress.

      This atavistic slide into nativist nationalism and isolationism, led by a seriously unhinged individual, represents the opposite of progress.

      1. bud

        This atavistic slide into nativist nationalism and isolationism,
        -Brad

        Seriously? How can you expect to be taken seriously with such an unorthodox word salad. But ok, you’re a man of words so I’ll let it slide. Frankly a bit of isolationism is a good thing. It’s high time we stopped playing the world’s policeman. If Trump can accomplish that then maybe something good will come of this goon’s presidency.

        1. Brad Warthen Post author

          That’s not word salad, that’s a carefully constructed layer cake. It has structure and form, although I’ll admit that’s too many “isms” and “istics” together.

          “Word salad” is what we get from Trump. Perfect description. I applauded the creativity the first time I saw that applied to his bizarre speech patterns, until someone (Kathryn?) told me that was an established term before Trump…

      2. Claus

        The thing is you have been writing about the downfall of man prior to the election. Personally I don’t know about you, but I haven’t noticed one single change in my life since the election. You’re already 100% convinced that we will fail.

        1. Brad Warthen Post author

          Yeah, Doug keeps making the same point.

          We have VERY different ways of assessing the state of the world. Doug’s a libertarian; I most certainly am not. I don’t go by how I, personally, am doing day to day. I look at the state of politics and public policy, at our relations with other countries, and whether we’re headed in a good direction in those areas.

          And maybe you believe Trump when he says his administration is a well-oiled machine, but I’ve got eyes and ears, and I’ve never seen a government as fouled up as this right off the bat, with as many gross errors and amateurish missteps — not even close. And when you’re running the most powerful country in the world, you really can’t afford to screw up that much.

          THAT’S what I’m seeing. And it’s what folks in the government on both sides of the aisle, and folks in the agencies, and leaders of other countries are seeing. Which is why so many people are very, very concerned. Most of these folks knew having such an unfit person as president would be a very, very bad idea, but I don’t think many of us expected so many unforced errors, day after day. It’s like we have a disturbed child in charge, and every day he goes out of his way to remind us of it…

          1. Richard

            Well then, stop whining and do something about it. You don’t know how sick and tiring it is to read the same crap over and over and over on a daily basis. Not one thing you’ve written about Trump has made one bit of difference.

          2. bud

            Just to play the devils advocate, the first few months of the Clinton administration were pretty rocky. That was the result of Clinton hiring inexperienced staff to run the White House. Much the same under Carter. Eventually both figured it out and things ran smoothly. But in many respects what we’re seeing now is similar, but worse. Still, there is precedent.

            1. Brad Warthen Post author

              Well, Carter had a similar problem to Trump: He staffed the West Wing with outsiders, who had no clue how to operate in that environment. And it showed, particularly in terms of dealings with Congress.

              I remember an anecdote I read in a wire story at the time, just as the Carter people were settling in. One of Carter’s people from Georgia was talking with a D.C. realtor about buying a home in the area, and told the realtor he was looking for something under $50,000 (which at that time was a reasonable price in Georgia). The realtor snootily replied, “We don’t deal in rentals…”

        2. scout

          If your life hasn’t changed, I suspect that means you are not an immigrant, an ethnic minority, a disabled person, a muslim, a non white, a jew, a woman, an obamacare user, or gay, among possible others. Are you too self involved to notice or care that some groups have been negatively affected in ways that don’t reflect what our values historically have been.

          1. Doug Ross

            “If your life hasn’t changed, I suspect that means you are not an immigrant, an ethnic minority, a disabled person, a muslim, a non white, a jew, a woman, an obamacare user, or gay, among possible others. ”

            Really? Other than a small number of people who were held up at the border, who has been affected so far by Trump? Obamacare hasn’t changed (and it won’t change until at least next year). Has gay marriage stopped?

            What impact has Trump had on you as a woman? What has he done?

            1. Doug Ross

              The level of hand wringing, wailing, and gnashing of teeth about Trump is so similar to the right wing zealots who thought Obama was going to turn the U.S. into a socialist country. The paranoia is the same.

              1. Harry Harris

                Not even close to similar. The reactions to Trump are based on real stuff he has said, done and appointed. Most of the anti-Obama stuff is as you described it.

              2. Brad Warthen Post author

                No, actually it isn’t. But yeah, the demonization of Obama by the right, and the demonization of Bush by the left that preceded it, had a huge effect on the political dysfunction that led to Trump.

                But once again — this moment in American history is completely and utterly unprecedented. There has never been a president — Republican, Democratic, Whig, Federalist, what have you — who was this ignorant, petty, unprepared, unhinged, unfit, out of touch with (and hostile to) reality, such a raving, out-of-control man-child. Ever. We’ve never come even close.

                And it’s dangerous in the extreme to think even for a moment that this is politics as usual. Politics has largely been my life, and I assure you — we’ve never faced a problem like this.

            2. scout

              “Other than a small number of people who were held up at the border, who has been affected so far by Trump? ”

              Did you miss Brad’s post where likely legal immigrants feel so threatened by the current climate created by Trump’s rhetoric that they choose to leave on foot in freezing weather?

              I know of personal stories of legal immgrants and/or minorities whose lives have palpably changed due to the climate of fear and the emboldenment of hate since the election.

              I need to get more info but i’ve heard anecdotal accounts of kids in sc losing their medicaid funding to pay for autism therapy due to “the rollback of the aca”. Not sure if that is due to changes from the executive order or the leeway Price has in implementing the ACA, But there are real effects for real people right now.

              There is a bill proposed to repeal ESEA (including title i) to fund vouchers which would decimate public schools, with no accountability for private schools, and no solution to lack of options for disabled kids or poor kids in remotr areas, yet still takes their funding away.

              These things are real.

    1. Brad Warthen Post author

      Now you’ve done it, picking on my girl Nikki.

      Seriously, I read some of the linked material. Sounds like she’s learning faster than I’d hoped…

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